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Hackster's LSA / T56 2 door

Sean,

Just a heads up. The second set of bolt holes on the strut mounts allows you to deshroud the bolt that is hidden by the strut tower.

Looking good!!!
 
I hear ya on opening up the strut tower bar, like I have said before sometimes its a balance of aesthetics and performance for me. I still cannot believe that there are no instructions provided with any of Kaplhenke's parts as well as not a single one linked off of his website, Moreover, why doesn't the strut tower bar opening match the pattern on the top of the adjustable upper strut mount. I understand that not everyone will run them, but maybe have it as an option? I cut enough, not to mention I don't really want to send it off to have it re powdercoated.

The opening was designed and manufactured the way it was to provide the most versatility to the most amount of people. There is a very small number of people using this strut brace with these strut mounts compared to people using this brace with stock mounts or our offset mounts, there is an even smaller amount of those people who will be cutting their strut towers to install these. from an aesthetic point of view, adding a pattern to plate that will get used by 2% of the end users doesn't make sense. I prefer the cleaner aesthetic as the brace ships. Also not everyone installs the strut mounts in the same orientation so that adds even more complexity trying to integrate everything together.



On cars that get abused with stock strut mounts, the strut tower often does not stay flat so leaving the most metal surrounding the opening is beneficial for that reasons
 
@hackster, What radiator is in the car? I'm having the same exact cooling issues with mine. I will be following this. (BTW, I'm running Lingenfelter 165 Stat)
 
I’d align with more neg camber first, then rear springs, then front bar.

No question Sean - if operating temps are more than about 10F higher than your inlet-located t'stat temp, then t’stat is not controlling temp. As mentioned before, you’re already not rejecting enough heat to keep at 200F under a number of conditions. You’d have to reject even MORE heat to get it down to 170F....you see the issue? Do you have the splash shield or some other device to create an are of low pressure below/behind the rad/engine? If not, that will assist with airflow across the rad at speed. What are your oil temps doing?

FWIW, mine sits right at 195-197F (187F inlet t’stat) regardless of ambient (even 95-100F) if I’m moving fast enough to keep the fans off. With fans on it controls right at the set point - 202F. All numers confirmed by gauge and by ecu output. Oil temps with cooler fan on stay between 210F-235F. Running Howe Racing alum 24x16 core with side tanks and 2 one inch rows. Also done a lot of work sealing up front end so all air entering grille and air dam opening (below bumper) is forced across condenser and rad - it can’t go anywhere else. And I run the so-called splash shield as it assists with airflow across the rad at speed. Last - I mounted the oil cooler low and ducted it so that hot air off the oil cooler goes under the car - not back into the cooling system. Means the heat rejected from the oil is truly incremental. Nothing wrong with oil cooler in front of rad (or a coolant to oil exchanger) provided the radiator was sized with the extra btu’s from the oil in mind.

160 t’stat will help for short autocross runs and 1/4 mile where you’re cooling between runs. But it’s not gonna change much of anything under those conditions you described - if you’re showing 210F-217F, your 190F t’stat is already wide open - just like the 160F will be.
 
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Im on a stock 190? NA and the highest I've seen is 206 w/ heat index of 110 outside up a hill. Something aint right but 216? isn't all that bad. The stock trucks and SUV's run 215? factory running temp.
 
I?d align with more neg camber first, then rear springs, then front bar.

No question Sean - if operating temps are more than about 10F higher than your inlet-located t'stat temp, then t?stat is not controlling temp. As mentioned before, you?re already not rejecting enough heat to keep at 200F under a number of conditions. You?d have to reject even MORE heat to get it down to 170F....you see the issue? Do you have the splash shield or some other device to create an are of low pressure below/behind the rad/engine? If not, that will assist with airflow across the rad at speed. What are your oil temps doing?

FWIW, mine sits right at 195-197F (187F inlet t?stat) regardless of ambient (even 95-100F) if I?m moving fast enough to keep the fans off. With fans on it controls right at the set point - 202F. All numers confirmed by gauge and by ecu output. Oil temps with cooler fan on stay between 210F-235F. Running Howe Racing alum 24x16 core with side tanks and 2 one inch rows. Also done a lot of work sealing up front end so all air entering grille and air dam opening (below bumper) is forced across condenser and rad - it can?t go anywhere else. And I run the so-called splash shield as it assists with airflow across the rad at speed. Last - I mounted the oil cooler low and ducted it so that hot air off the oil cooler goes under the car - not back into the cooling system. Means the heat rejected from the oil is truly incremental. Nothing wrong with oil cooler in front of rad (or a coolant to oil exchanger) provided the radiator was sized with the extra btu?s from the oil in mind.

160 t?stat will help for short autocross runs and 1/4 mile where you?re cooling between runs. But it?s not gonna change much of anything under those conditions you described - if you?re showing 210F-217F, your 190F t?stat is already wide open - just like the 160F will be.

Im really close to how your temps sit on my car.
 
Absolutely ^^^ 215-220F won't hurt a thing on the OEM stuff - in fact many of the factory fan settings allow them to run in the 230F-240F range frequently. Suspect with boost and mild ambients (50F's?) Sean is wondering what might occur as ambients increase during the summer. Also, it would be nice to know that you have plenty of heat rejection capability for track use -- a measure of that is the temps reflecting that the t'stat is controlling...and under the circumstances described above, that's not happening.

'Spose it's possible that the t'stat is slowly failing - not opening all the way, although I haven't had that happen to me. In my experience, t'stats worked until they failed to open and then immediate overheating was the symptom. Have had one (daughter's Toy Corolla) fail OPEN - car wouldn't come close to heating up in the winter time. Piece of debris had lodged itself between the seat and the 'valve' which kept the t'stat cracked open all the time. Too cool in the winter for it to heat up enough to open all the way and release the debris - which might have caused other problems. I went ahead and replaced it.

Sean's comments about increasing rpm or throttle dropping the temp under cruise are interesting -- can't make that fit with all this. Challenges with t'stats over the years have me to where even brand new ones in the box I test on the cooktop with a thermometer before I put them in the car. The one that came new in my motor began to open at 186F and was fully open when I was reading 188F-189F. I recall it was stamped 187F.
 
Sean's comments about increasing rpm or throttle dropping the temp under cruise are interesting -- can't make that fit with all this. Challenges with t'stats over the years have me to where even brand new ones in the box I test on the cooktop with a thermometer before I put them in the car. The one that came new in my motor began to open at 186F and was fully open when I was reading 188F-189F. I recall it was stamped 187F.

Mine is doing this exact thing as well, I've also been curious if by swapping to a small SFI crank pulley caused this for me. My car will cool to 170-175 cruising, and be at 190-205 under very light load conditions. I've attributed this to airflow through the RAD, but I've been wondering if the water pump even gets into its pumping efficiency range at idle and low RPM.
 
LS engines run hot *-210*+ is normal. They handle it well, and the aluminum blocks cool even better. You need to have a bypass in the heater circuit. When the Volvo heater control is off, there is no flow in the circuit, which causes the pump to pull a vacuum and cavitate.
I put a bypass from LOJ in my heater circuit and it allows flow back to the pump when the heater valve is closed. My temps dropped 10-15 *
 
I don't have any doubt that you guys are correct.

However. I came home from work and finished the struts. Started the old **** box up to see exactly what temps I have.

Car heats up quick, heater valve fully open. Was at operating temp in less than 10 mins.

Car gets to 190 and thermostat opens.

Car ran at 190 for a few, then 194 then 196 and settled back to 194.

This is with the hood open, hood closed same thing no change.

Now where it gets interesting.

Plenty of cool water at the radiator.

Water coming from engine measure with IR on the aluminum tank never got above 130.

Supply water from Radiator to the engine was cool to the touch as was the radiator end tank.

Fan 1 turns on at 170, fan 2 at 185.

This appears to be telling me that I have a thermostat that's not quite opening or my cooling system is working really well and the stat isn't opening very far.

It's not heat soaked, the radiator is able to reject tons of heat.

I am going to try the other stat and see what it does.

Sean
 
Put 'em in a pan on the cook top with a thermometer Sean -- check and see what you've got before you put it in -- they're bad right out of the box from time to time....
 
LS engines run hot *-210*+ is normal. They handle it well, and the aluminum blocks cool even better. You need to have a bypass in the heater circuit. When the Volvo heater control is off, there is no flow in the circuit, which causes the pump to pull a vacuum and cavitate.
I put a bypass from LOJ in my heater circuit and it allows flow back to the pump when the heater valve is closed. My temps dropped 10-15 *

I dont have a bypass in mine and I have no problems.... eh?
 
Fan trigger temps are too low.

There should be a temp window between the thermostat open temp and the fan shut off temp for the radiator to do it's job. Ideally, most of the heat transfer should be coming from that window (when the radiator is at full flow), and the goal is to avoid having the fans bring the temps below stat temp. It's unnecessary temp cycling, and fan cycling.

For LS's with the standard 185 deg Tstat the first fan should come on around 195 and off at 190(this prevents fan cycling), and second on at 200, off at 190.

This temp window allows 5 degrees for the radiator to do it's job before the fan(s) have to come on and assist the heat transfer.
 
Problem solved, 2 google clicks DONE.

47107730814_8af99302a5_c.jpg
 
Fan trigger temps are too low.

There should be a temp window between the thermostat open temp and the fan shut off temp for the radiator to do it's job. Ideally, most of the heat transfer should be coming from that window (when the radiator is at full flow), and the goal is to avoid having the fans bring the temps below stat temp. It's unnecessary temp cycling, and fan cycling.

For LS's with the standard 185 deg Tstat the first fan should come on around 195 and off at 190(this prevents fan cycling), and second on at 200, off at 190.

This temp window allows 5 degrees for the radiator to do it's job before the fan(s) have to come on and assist the heat transfer.

None of this should be in play at all for the temp issues he's seeing under cruise or at the track when there should be plenty of airflow to across the rad to have the t'stat alone controlling temps with the fans completely off. Besides that, with the stock (185F, 187F, 190F ?) t'stat on the inlet, you're gonna see op temps in the 194F-200F range at the head. It's that operating temp, not the t'stat temp, that you need the 5F degree cushion for fans on. If the t'stat were on the outlet, then your temp ranges would work just fine.
 
Where are all you people when I have a spring rate question or need some suspension know how :-P


Fan trigger temps are too low.

There should be a temp window between the thermostat open temp and the fan shut off temp for the radiator to do it's job. Ideally, most of the heat transfer should be coming from that window (when the radiator is at full flow), and the goal is to avoid having the fans bring the temps below stat temp. It's unnecessary temp cycling, and fan cycling.

For LS's with the standard 185 deg Tstat the first fan should come on around 195 and off at 190(this prevents fan cycling), and second on at 200, off at 190.

This temp window allows 5 degrees for the radiator to do it's job before the fan(s) have to come on and assist the heat transfer.

We set up the fan temps for the 160 degree stat, just have not gotten around to installing it yet. Should have it in hand today. Totally understand about staging the fans based off thermostat temp.

Problem solved, 2 google clicks DONE.

47107730814_8af99302a5_c.jpg

Haha, reposting cause I love that pic.

I got the strut tower back installed on the car, got things bolted in and with my digital angle finder seems that all that work and I still only have 2.3 degrees of negative camber on the fronts. Clearly my initial measurement of 1.8 was incorrect since I have moved the strut in .75" or so.

Hope to get it in for a proper alignment this week if I can.

Running out of time to get all this **** done before the weekend though. Gotta swap rear springs, install t stat, new intake elbow (reinforced) and get an alignment.

Parts should show up later today.

Sean
 
Well - since you asked for spring/suspension 'guidance' -- rule number one when I was racing was 'only change one thing at a time'. I'd do the alignment and see how it works before swapping the springs. Changing multiple things at a time and it's impossible to know what's impacting what.
 
Well, we were all wrong!!! Just goes to show you that you can play jump to conclusions all day long and still not win.

Drained the coolant out, swapped in the new 160 thermostat, start car, bleed steam ports, get car up to temp, stat opens right at 160, fan 1 turns on at 170, fan 2 turns on at 180, car runs right to 196 and sits there, exactly like before.

Scratches head.

Small leak at thermostat housing too now.....

Drain now hot coolant....

Remove thermostat, replace gasket with old but better gasket, reinstall, fill system, bleed steam lines, check for leaks.....no leaks.

Get up to temp, same deal stat opens at 160, fan 1 on at 170, fan 2 on at 180, car runs at 196.

I have 80 degree water in the radiator at the inlet to the water pump and thermostat.....so this leads me to believe I dont have an air issue. I have a water issue.

So I hope in the drivers seat and go from the idle of 800 RPM up to 1300, temp drops from 196 right to 180 in a matter of 30 seconds.

I do this a handful of times with the same results. Clearly its a water flow/pump issue.

Swap the rear springs out to the 400's build a gheto catch can for the rear diff and head out for a spin. 50lbs difference softened up the rear a lot, going to need to do something to gain some tire clearance to stop the rubbing but it feels much more balanced.

So take the car out for a spin, cruising around, car runs 170-175 or so, perfect, right where it should be and 30 degrees cooler than before so everything is working. Stop at a light and it creeps up to 185 or so.

Its not overheating so I am not really worried about it but its definitely not pumping enough at idle. Google says others have this problem as well.

Its not at all going to affect my track day though so drained the overflow, topped off the coolant and buttoned it up.

Still need to roll the rear fenders some more, and get an alignment before Friday.

Thought I would update everyone who put in their .02.

Sean
 
I know next to nothing about LS engines, but is the water pump pulley stock?

I do know how to get stop the rubbing issue though. Send me the wheels and tires. ;-)
 
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