• Hello Guest, welcome to the initial stages of our new platform!
    You can find some additional information about where we are in the process of migrating the board and setting up our new software here

    Thank you for being a part of our community!

Intermediate shaft won't go in and fits tight

OldGrandpaTune

The Road Warrior
Joined
May 7, 2013
Location
Rural Ohio
My donor motor is an 86 B230FT block.

Got new intermediate bearings from NAPA pressed in at the machine shop. My intermediate wont go in without hitting it with a mallet. It also wont turn by hand with the pulley on.

Is this self clearancing, or do I having something going on that is wrong. Nothing looked warped or anything by eye.

I can get calipers out if necessary.
 
My donor motor is an 86 B230FT block.

Got new intermediate bearings from NAPA pressed in at the machine shop. My intermediate wont go in without hitting it with a mallet. It also wont turn by hand with the pulley on.

Is this self clearancing, or do I having something going on that is wrong. Nothing looked warped or anything by eye.

I can get calipers out if necessary.


Clearance...its a bitch, calipers won't measure accurately enough to say a peep...
snap gauges and mike.

And its hard to measure deep in there...

It could be just a widdle burr....
 
Clearance...its a bitch, calipers won't measure accurately enough to say a peep...
snap gauges and mike.

And its hard to measure deep in there...

It could be just a widdle burr....

Thanks Dr. V. Got plenty of lubriplate on there, and will just smash that bearing into shape.
 
Try de-burring the leading edge of the bearings. The installation process can raise a burr as their being hammered into place.

When I have this problem with B18/B20 cam bearings, I use an old cam with a diagonal groove cut along the bearing surfaces. A little white grease will hold the chips in the groove while lubing the bearing. Slowly turn the shaft while applying pressure and the burrs will be removed.
 
Try de-burring the leading edge of the bearings. The installation process can raise a burr as their being hammered into place.

When I have this problem with B18/B20 cam bearings, I use an old cam with a diagonal groove cut along the bearing surfaces. A little white grease will hold the chips in the groove while lubing the bearing. Slowly turn the shaft while applying pressure and the burrs will be removed.

Good to go now. Just put a bolt on the pulley at the end then turned and tapped the intermediate shaft slowly. Probably turns now with 10 ft lbs. Five minute process and rolling again.

Thanks again hiperfauto for getting the right bearings and freeze plugs. We have a 60 degree weekend coming up perfect to make some progress and get the motor going.
 
Those bearing shells are usually sold as "semi-finished".
This means that you will have to have them finish (line) bored after installing them into the engine block.

I ran into this problem when rebuilding a B21 engine.
I never did find a machine shop to bore the bearings, although overhead valve engines have been having the cam bearings bored forever.
It's a similar process, but I never did find anyone to do it.

I had this problem because I had a machine shop boil out the block and turn the crank.
For some reason, they removed the intermediate shaft bearings and threw them away.
They were a full service engine shop (20 years ago), and they could not line bore the bearings, so I just stopped.



I still have the block, crank, head and new bearings.

If you find someone to finish these bearings for you, I'd sure like to know who (and where) they are.

ps...My brother had the same problem when he was re-building a B21 engine to go into a 73 model P1800.
He finished the bearings by hand...one at a time using a brake hone.
I didn't think that it would work, but the engine was still running when he sold the car 3 years later.
I still don't know how he got the bore straight.
These bearings and shafts must be forgiving.

Before anyone asks, I know that the 73 model P1800 came with a B20 engine.
It's a long story..
 
Last edited:
Good to go, you're kidding? 10 lb*ft of torque to turn the aux shaft. You are going to seize a bearing to the shaft if you run it like that. At least, tear the s**t out of the bearing and journal that is dragging that much. Fix the problem now, otherwise, this is going to turn into a crying in your beer thread.
 
Good to go, you're kidding? 10 lb*ft of torque to turn the aux shaft. You are going to seize a bearing to the shaft if you run it like that. At least, tear the s**t out of the bearing and journal that is dragging that much. Fix the problem now, otherwise, this is going to turn into a crying in your beer thread.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^:nod:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Good to go, you're kidding? 10 lb*ft of torque to turn the aux shaft. You are going to seize a bearing to the shaft if you run it like that. At least, tear the s**t out of the bearing and journal that is dragging that much. Fix the problem now, otherwise, this is going to turn into a crying in your beer thread.

Okay, that is the only part I put in and it is freezing out. Next weekend I'll keep pulling it apart and inspecting and get the crud out. Some little piece of bearing shaving or something is probably stuck in there.

Reason to ask the stupid questions, so the motor ends up right.

Only one bearing seems to be the problem closest to cylinder one. Anyone ever tried taking superfine grit and trying to surface a bearing a little?
 
Okay, that is the only part I put in and it is freezing out. Next weekend I'll keep pulling it apart and inspecting and get the crud out. Some little piece of bearing shaving or something is probably stuck in there.

Reason to ask the stupid questions, so the motor ends up right.

Only one bearing seems to be the problem closest to cylinder one. Anyone ever tried taking superfine grit and trying to surface a bearing a little?

The only stupid question is one that isn't asked, resulting in disaster. I have heard of using fine wet/dry sand paper to remove bearing material, I've never done it.
 
The brake hone and grease idea sounds like the way to go to me, as it will follow the bore, and you can do a bit and test fit until it's right.
 
The brake hone and grease idea sounds like the way to go to me, as it will follow the bore, and you can do a bit and test fit until it's right.

The problem with that is it is indiscriminate. IOW, it makes the whole bore larger, or, flexes right over the problem while removing material where you don't need to remove material. Usually, you can clean everything up, attempt to put the shaft in, turn it back and forth a very small amount where it is sticking and see a shiny spot appear where it is dragging. Work that spot out until the shaft slides in easily. It is the same principle/practice a lock smith uses to cut a key from the lock cylinder while it is still in the door.
 
The problem with that is it is indiscriminate. IOW, it makes the whole bore larger, or, flexes right over the problem while removing material where you don't need to remove material. Usually, you can clean everything up, attempt to put the shaft in, turn it back and forth a very small amount where it is sticking and see a shiny spot appear where it is dragging. Work that spot out until the shaft slides in easily. It is the same principle/practice a lock smith uses to cut a key from the lock cylinder while it is still in the door.

That sounds like the best advice. I'll just keep nursing it with light sandpaper and getting the right mechanical feel. Bet a couple hours of light sanding then feeding the shaft in slowly and turning it will result in a nice spun by hand sweet spot.

Way easier having the patience for this stuff with a DD standing by and the project car still running sort of.
 
micromesh sanding fabric. Look it up. It comes in like 14 different grits, and it is perfect for this application. Use your finger tip.
 
Those bearing shells are usually sold as "semi-finished".
This means that you will have to have them finish (line) bored after installing them into the engine block.

I ran into this problem when rebuilding a B21 engine.
I never did find a machine shop to bore the bearings, although overhead valve engines have been having the cam bearings bored forever.
It's a similar process, but I never did find anyone to do it.

I had this problem because I had a machine shop boil out the block and turn the crank.
For some reason, they removed the intermediate shaft bearings and threw them away.
They were a full service engine shop (20 years ago), and they could not line bore the bearings, so I just stopped.



I still have the block, crank, head and new bearings.

If you find someone to finish these bearings for you, I'd sure like to know who (and where) they are.

ps...My brother had the same problem when he was re-building a B21 engine to go into a 73 model P1800.
He finished the bearings by hand...one at a time using a brake hone.
I didn't think that it would work, but the engine was still running when he sold the car 3 years later.
I still don't know how he got the bore straight.
These bearings and shafts must be forgiving.

Before anyone asks, I know that the 73 model P1800 came with a B20 engine.
It's a long story..

I don't touch those bearings for this ^ reason.
Star Crank in Port Jervis NY knows how to re fit and size them.
But; if it ain't broke, don't mess with it.
 
I don't touch those bearings for this ^ reason.
Star Crank in Port Jervis NY knows how to re fit and size them.
But; if it ain't broke, don't mess with it.

My intermediate shaft bearings were worn. The only place I could fine to get them was through NAPA. It would cost way more than a rebuild to ship my block to a specialist, and this would get away from the TBrickers guy in a shed sort of project.

The set from NAPA is maybe 70 bucks and I think another 20 to have the shop press them in. The good news is that the intermediate shaft material is hardened, and all that has to be done is get the bearings to fit. These do much less work than main bearings spinning just an oil pump around.

Sounds like a lot of nice suggestions to work with what I have. Thanks everyone. That mesh sounds really like a great idea.
 
I'd bet the rear two bearings are actually the issue. They are damn close in size but not exactly the same, at least the OEM ones I got weren't, and there were 3 different numbers on the bearings. Front is obvious, middle and rear are close but not exact. They line up at the same time between the 3 bearings, so finding which is the issue may be slightly more difficult.

As for the resolution, do as John mentioned, measure each bearing ID and compare to your intermediate shaft. Rear should be a touch smaller than the middle.

BTDT on mine.
 
My intermediate shaft bearings were worn. The only place I could fine to get them was through NAPA. It would cost way more than a rebuild to ship my block to a specialist, and this would get away from the TBrickers guy in a shed sort of project.

The set from NAPA is maybe 70 bucks and I think another 20 to have the shop press them in. The good news is that the intermediate shaft material is hardened, and all that has to be done is get the bearings to fit. These do much less work than main bearings spinning just an oil pump around.

Sounds like a lot of nice suggestions to work with what I have. Thanks everyone. That mesh sounds really like a great idea.

Respect! :cameron:
 
That last bearing was the troublemaker. Super Nub at work informed me we do have that mesh sandpaper. A little work with calipers, and being gentle and patient and that baby should spin with precision.

Thanks everyone for all the good advice.

Maybe someone can come up with a DIY line boring kit. Seems like lots of us will run into this problem when the intermediate bearings are replaced.
 
Back
Top