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Hackster's LSA / T56 2 door

215? is normal operating temps for these engines. Corvettes see upwards of 230? when on the track. Not sure what everyones worry about being at the temp. These's aren't SBC that need to be under 195?

It's one thing if the thermostat is keeping it that toasty, it's another if not enough airflow is doing it. That's not a controlled temp, it's a problem waiting to bite you in the ass.

But it doesn't explain everyones fear of running at stock temp for these engines. Whats the fear?

That's a different topic, but it's some more headroom for temp buildup when you get into some boostyness.

I agree that they dont need to run at 190. My concern is that if I cannot keep the temps in check just cruising around town there is no way I will be able to be able to keep it cool on track for a 20 minute session. Last year I saw temps up close to 230. I increased boost levels and am afraid I dont have enough cooling for sustained track days even with the 3 core radiator.

From what I have read, the reasoning for the high temps has everything to do with emissions output and nothing to do with ideal operating temps.

I am not sure Ill take the car out for another track day though so its probably not even worth me worrying about at this point.

Find NWAA events on MSR. They keep the number of entrants low and you will get so much seat time you will be sitting on the sidelines watching, saving your tires. BCA does the same thing occasionally. I ran with them last year at an event that was limited to 25-30 drivers. I think I made 20+ runs that day. At the BCA hosted Audi event at PIR I made 30+ runs and put the car away because the front tires were done. That event finished them off.

I love the sound of that Roy. Ill look them up. I have a set of 315 rivals I need to finish off. I might throw them on for this weekend if I go. I like the 11" wheels better than the 10's so I want to swap on some fresh rubber on them. Have one set with Rivals and another with the yok's

Sean, to better guide that belt, maybe add one or two idlers with flanges to help pick up any sudden slack, keep vibration and wander down?

If it is 6 rib, maybe try a Gates 36270 (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1390705&jsn=2055). Here's a massive list of them http://www.gates.com/oreilly/PDFs/Pulley Size Listing.pdf . Same 6-rib pulley but with ribs: Gates 36100 (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1015482&jsn=2059)

HTH

I have never seen those smooth back with flanges before. If I have other issues with the belt coming off I will definately give those a shot. How did you find those? Are they a normal application on something?

Sean
 
Have you tried to add some timing and give it some fuel below idle rpm to give it a stronger cushion to land on when coming to a stop?
 
Get a oem application fan. Most aftermarket fans I've used have all sucked ass regardless of what they are rated at. My 2 row c4 rad has been good ever since I got the shroud situated on it, just a hacked up 940 fan. The Fairmont had a dual pass northern radiator and 91 for taurus fan and it never got over 180-190 no matter how hard I beat on it
 
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Get a oem application fan. Most aftermarket fans I've used have all sucked ass regardless of what they are rated at. My 2 row c4 rad has been good ever since I got the shroud situated on it, just a hacked up 940 fan. The Fairmont had a dual pass northern radiator and it never got over 180-190 no matter how hard I beat on it

+1

Good ducting and shrouding makes a huge difference.
 
Sean, to better guide that belt, maybe add one or two idlers with flanges to help pick up any sudden slack, keep vibration and wander down?

If it is 6 rib, maybe try a Gates 36270 (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1390705&jsn=2055). Here's a massive list of them http://www.gates.com/oreilly/PDFs/Pulley Size Listing.pdf . Same 6-rib pulley but with ribs: Gates 36100 (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1015482&jsn=2059)

HTH

I have never seen those smooth back with flanges before. If I have other issues with the belt coming off I will definately give those a shot. How did you find those? Are they a normal application on something?

Sean

Yeah, just check out that list PDF (http://www.gates.com/oreilly/PDFs/Pulley Size Listing.pdf) for all the pulley specs (6-rib, flanged, width, height etc), take the part number like "Gates 36100", punch that into the Part search area at https://www.rockauto.com, then click on the number in the results "36100", and it will tell you what cars that came on.. Just order it there, they're usually not too much $$, or just search for the part on Amazon ebay etc etc haha :oogle: Things to watch for are how you're going to mount it, like what size bolt, etc, if you have to make a mount.
 
Have you tried to add some timing and give it some fuel below idle rpm to give it a stronger cushion to land on when coming to a stop?

I am not tuning it.....I have a guy from Michigan that is doing the tuning for me. Its something to do with the stupid Nick Williams Tb that is the cause of the frustrations. I hope that he can get some time with it this week. He has taken a few stabs at it without success.

Get a oem application fan. Most aftermarket fans I've used have all sucked ass regardless of what they are rated at. My 2 row c4 rad has been good ever since I got the shroud situated on it, just a hacked up 940 fan. The Fairmont had a dual pass northern radiator and 91 for taurus fan and it never got over 180-190 no matter how hard I beat on it

Interesting, I had a northern 2 row in it before and the car got hot then as well when on track. Now I have a Northern 3 row (supposedly 33% more cooling).

I think the one thing that is different from a normal street car drag car is that when you say beat on it, you do a pull for what 10 to 30 seconds? Then you get a break from the load. I am out there for 20 minutes with no real downtime.

I do agree with the OEM Fans being superior to aftermarket. Without cutting out the core support and revising everything I dont see a way to do that as my radiator is fairly short compared to most stock radiators. I am also out of room between the radiator and front of the engine.

+1

Good ducting and shrouding makes a huge difference.

I have the radiator completely shrouded on the back, 2 fans nice shroud. On the front I eliminated the factory air diffuser and built one out of 1/2" UHMW that spans the front air dam and is bolted to the tube that holds the lower radiator mount. It guides all of the air from the air damn up into the radiator.

Aside from the flap that they run on the third gen camaros and foxbody mustangs I dont really have any brilliant ideas to get the air jammed into the radiator.

I need to get some more seat time in the car once its tuned better and see how it does on warm days.

But for now, its much better than before with the 650 CFM Fans. I would say its temps are pretty safe for 90% of the time it will be driven.

Always appreciate the info.

Sean
 
The 940 fan and Taurus fans flow a metric f-tonne of air, and if you can make them work.... that would be the ticket. You're going to need 3k-4k CFM or more to keep things under control, all with a good shroud (in my experience).

I had 2x 12" "1600cfm" fans on the v8 drift car and it overheated constantly. Swapped to a Flex-a-lite shrouded 15" fan that a friend had from an old project, and no more issues. I can run at full tilt until the tires let go, and the car sits at ~210F the entire time. So that's at least 20min or so. The biggest issue I have now is that the alternator and PS pump get really hot and start to fade.

On the drift car, the radiator is also pushed forward on the bottom, like a V-mount setup, to gain extra space for the fan. The bottom of the rad is at the front edge of the lower core support, and the top is near the stock 240 location.

This is the fan: https://www.flex-a-lite.com/electri...ith-adjustable-thermostat-controller-663.html
 
The 940 fan and Taurus fans flow a metric f-tonne of air, and if you can make them work.... that would be the ticket. You're going to need 3k-4k CFM or more to keep things under control, all with a good shroud (in my experience).

I had 2x 12" "1600cfm" fans on the v8 drift car and it overheated constantly. Swapped to a Flex-a-lite shrouded 15" fan that a friend had from an old project, and no more issues. I can run at full tilt until the tires let go, and the car sits at ~210F the entire time. So that's at least 20min or so. The biggest issue I have now is that the alternator and PS pump get really hot and start to fade.

On the drift car, the radiator is also pushed forward on the bottom, like a V-mount setup, to gain extra space for the fan. The bottom of the rad is at the front edge of the lower core support, and the top is near the stock 240 location.

This is the fan: https://www.flex-a-lite.com/electri...ith-adjustable-thermostat-controller-663.html

Funny thing is that is the fan I have on the Foxbody. Once I ditched the failing plug on it, it works wonderful.

I agree that the fan is likely my problem here. I found a flex a lite fan and shroud that I am going to give a shot at and see if I can make it fit. Its taller than my radiator core but figure I can fabricate a little flange to seal off the bottom of it and hang it off the top.

Thanks for the input man.

Sean
 
Yea the turbo setup probably doesn't generate as much heat as the blower does as well. I will say the only time I ever had a over heating issue with the crappy c4 rad I have was on the way to davis. Sitting in dead stop traffic on the 680, 100+ ambient temps and nothing but water in the cooling system, lol. I hope you are able to figure it out! Maybe a trunk mount rad with some extra ducting to get the heat out of the engine bay! ;)
 
Yea the turbo setup probably doesn't generate as much heat as the blower does as well. I will say the only time I ever had a over heating issue with the crappy c4 rad I have was on the way to davis. Sitting in dead stop traffic on the 680, 100+ ambient temps and nothing but water in the cooling system, lol. I hope you are able to figure it out! Maybe a trunk mount rad with some extra ducting to get the heat out of the engine bay! ;)

Now you see that is the wheeling side of me that doesnt think you are too far off. If we were talking about the foxbody I would be in but I just cannot bring myself to cut up this car for some reason.

I remember that day you showed up at Davis, it was Hot as F&*^ but still good times.

Sean
 
Now you see that is the wheeling side of me that doesnt think you are too far off. If we were talking about the foxbody I would be in but I just cannot bring myself to cut up this car for some reason.

I remember that day you showed up at Davis, it was Hot as F&*^ but still good times.

Sean

I mean knowing how you operate I'm sure if you were to do it, it would be a amazingly clean install. :)
 
well....I took the car out on a 90 degree day and tested out the new fan. I added in 1000 CFM more airflow than I had before so it should have made a significant difference in temps.

First 15 or so minutes it was just fine, cruising around and on the surface streets and on the highway on flat ground. Temps around 185 to 190 or so.

As soon as you put any load on it, and any load, I mean we are talking a 3 percent grade able to easily pull in 6th at 70 you can just watch the temps go up, got up around 210 or so. Before I was seeing 215 but it was hotter that day.

For normal cruising I believe its fine, but for Track days and beating on it Its no better than before after adding in 33% more radiator capacity and an additional 1000 CFM of airflow.

So with that said. I agree more air would be good but it has me seriously questioning water flow or air trapped somewhere in the cooling system.

I am running a 2010 L99 Water pump and the steam port is tapped into the top of the water pump. It has a Lingenfelter 160 degree thermostat that has been in for at least a year.

I have verified that the L99 pump is the same direction of rotation as the factory truck water pump.

Im stumped. All of the other swapped cars I have built have been easy to keep cool......The one thing that I have not had before is CAN bus Digital temp sensors that read out exact coolant temps.

I burped the system when I got it up and running really well but reading horror stories about people having air trapped in there has me wondering if I need to try again.

Thoughts??

Thanks

Sean
 
I burped the system when I got it up and running really well but reading horror stories about people having air trapped in there has me wondering if I need to try again.

Thoughts??

Thanks

Sean

Have you tried vacuuming the system then letting the vacuum pull the coolant into the system? This is how we have to fill modern Volvo engines as there are so many places for an air pocket to form (they usually then find themselves at the water pump, where it cavitates and causes no flow of coolant through the system). I would expect you could find someone with the tools. It would be a quick way to knock out an air pocket as the fault.

Jordan
 
Have you tried vacuuming the system then letting the vacuum pull the coolant into the system? This is how we have to fill modern Volvo engines as there are so many places for an air pocket to form (they usually then find themselves at the water pump, where it cavitates and causes no flow of coolant through the system). I would expect you could find someone with the tools. It would be a quick way to knock out an air pocket as the fault.

Jordan

I havent but wondering if I should give it a shot, at this point its just a drain and refill that route. Not having much motivation though as well =)

That means tearing everything back apart and getting the car up in the air and all the belly pans off. Probably work on it on a weekend.

Sean
 
If it were me I would check the absolute highest point in the coolant tract, in a cold state, for air. If there's no air at that point, then I'd feel safe that I don't have any major pockets. Perhaps replace the Tstat with a colder opening version or just replace it altogether, perhaps it has failed.

I mean you obviously engineered the system to be a monster. Something to keep in mind, and it can be completely backwards, there is always a possibility that the flow is too high, in that the coolant may not be spending enough time in the radiator to get cooled adequately. The cooling system has to be *just right*. Not too fast and not too slow. Like a goldilocks zone of cooling. That doesn't really help much, I know. A simple fact is the radiator does the cooling, and the coolant has to be in the radiator long enough to get the heat into the air. You might just try fiddling with all your variables to see if you can get it to be "just so".

I'm confident you will figure it out regardless. Project cars!

Actually, the reason I mention the coolant *speed* is I have a friend who was living in Arlington back in like 2000 with a 71 Chevelle that had a big block. He was amazed that if he maxx'ed out the water pump by completely removing the tstat (more flow is better, right?) it would slowly over heat. He said he had to put in a washer, basically some restriction, to keep it from over heating.
 
I had a 1996 C4 corvette. Those have the LT4 LT1 platform. Anyway they have the dreaded reverse flow coolant system. They have issues with air pockets also. Had to replace the water pump on it but to bleed the system I would just run it bring it up to temp then shut if off and come back the next day and refill the overflow tank. Did that like 3 times. Didnt have any issues after doing that. Not sure if that will help your situation or not.
 
Hey man, I swear I am not following you from PBB, or Lat-G...

But I am building a 240 wagon that should be able to take down any of my other builds, except the all aluminum CJ2 on Corvette C7 suspension with an LT4/8L809E and paddles.

Thanks for some of the inspiration. I did think about getting rid of the Volvo rear arms. I am probably going triangulated rear 4 link on an 8.8.

Interesting to see the front stuff. Probably doing the same as you did.
 
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