Best score of the day... an m90, some questions.

[AnthonyH]

Got this bugger for 40$ today... (I'm in Bangkok.)
Quite lucky...

But got no clutch, nor flywheel with it.

So, I'll probably fab something up, but this this trannie need an input bearing? The nose of the input shaft is very very short and doesn't appear like there has ever been a pilot bearing.

Second, I tried a clutch disc from a m46/47 the center diameter of the m47 is abit bigger than the m90... what clutch disc will I need?
(Checked with the dealer here, none have a disc from a 850 or m90 instock.) Anyone know of a disc with the same spline?


Cheers!

[Boosted2003]

I wonder since people are running 850r volvo discs on them. I wonder if the 850 flyhweels will work?

[John V, outside agitator]

If you have the pressureplate, you can send me the outside diameter and the inside diameter and I can supply you with a nice sprung center organic or cerrametalic 4 or 6 puck ( 4 is fine) disc.
I do export all over.
Should be 1 week approx and then however long the post takes.

[JW240]

its a redblock M90, so a 850 flywheel won't work i guess (the flywheel wont fit on a redblock). IIRC there is some combination between a normal turbo redblock pressure plate + flywheel and the M90 TDI clutch disc that will work...

It works fine without the input bearing IIRC. The redlock and M90 combo is usually with the thick 2-mass flywheel.

on www.volvoturbo.net is a M47 to M90 swap for a 240 described.

[Wagner]

The m90 mainshaft does not reach the flywheel nor the pilot bearing. It just is that way. I think it was Captain Bondo who told that there is no recess for a pilot bearing in the 800-series 5-cyl engines. (the m90 transmission is basically the same transmission as the m56 used in FWD 850 volvos, only in a different casing.)

You can use any redblock flywheel and any redblock pressure plate. Just the clutch disc has to fit the m90 main shaft. I use a copper clutch disc, but i've heard that some 800-series diesel volvo's clutch fits nicely and it's 228mm in diameter.

This is something I posted in another thread a while back:

First some things about the M90:
There are 3 versions available for the redblocks.

1. The M90L with a low first and second and a low fifth gear (standard on most of the 940´s and pretty boring box and ratios if you don´t have a 3.31 rear or something).

2. The M90L2 with a low first and second, and a high fifth gear (Great for both pulling heavy loads and to get good mileage on the highway, most common on the later model 940 wagons with an FK engine).

3. And the M90H with a high first and second and a low fifth gear (great "close ratio" box, best driveability, and can handle the most amount of torque, came in some of the 940´s with an FT engine).

The M90 (at least the H version) can take in excess of 500NM of torque (more if you weld the synchro on the third gear).

The dual-mass or double-mass flywheel is not recommended for power outputs over 350NM (~250HP) because it can break or go into a horrific "shudder", and sometimes even break. It is also heavy as hell and was only fitted together with the M90 to give good low end stability/torque and to keep the gearbox stable and quiet.

All the M90 and M56 are 20 splines by the way...



Now to the modifications to make the M90 and clutch setup take some power:
The setup mentioned below is not the standard size that the M90 would use with the dual-mass flywheel, but it is simpler, stronger and easier to come by.

1. A "flat" flywheel from a 91-94 LH2.4 940 Turbo. Preferrably lightened (and it is easy and cheap to get lightened), but not nessecary.

2. Clutch disc 850GLT, 20 splines, 228mm, Sachs p/n: 1862 314 032

3. Pressure plate, strengthened, 228mm, Sachs p/n: 3082 999 763

This setup is recommended and has proven to hold 440NM of torque (stated by ENEM and KGTrimning). A very good setup that will still give you a very good, tight clutch feeling and it will still maintain stock driveability.

The clutch and pressure plate can be found in this webshop: http://213.136.58.58/butiken/?butikid=00446

[AnthonyH]

So I guess the box I have is a M90H because it came off an 940SE with the FT engine.

I'll try going back to the volvo dealer again this monday with your 850GLT part-numbers and perhaps they can dig me something better.
I'm going to most likely use a b21 flat flywheel and mod it to accept some japanese clutch cover... (most likely going to be a 4g-63)

Sintered-clutch is just not something for me, because the car will have to go through Bangkok traffic, kinda sucks when you have an on/off switch for a clutch.

[Wagner]

The sintered is by no means a on-off clutch. It is just like any other clutch, and can be slipped a bit. I've used one for at least 3 years now.

But it is a lot louder than a normal clutch disc, it howls when taking off from standstill. Aand when it gets warm, it bites more aggressively.

I have not found any pressure plate that would accomodate a 228mm clutch disc and bolt directly to the flat volvo flywheel.

If i remeber correctly the Sachs p/n: 3082 999 763 is for the heavy, stepped flywheel, not for the flat one.

I'm usign a BMW sport pressure plate for a 228mm disc, and my flat flywheel has been modified so that the PP fits to it.

[AnthonyH]

I'm still wondering about the pilot bearing, it feels very strange to have a transmission with no pilot bearing. I am now thinking of making some sort of an extended adaptor, press fit it into the crank-shaft and it'll have a broze bushing atleast.

Another thing I feel strange about is I'll be having this trannie leaning. (Because I'm going to have the b230 stand upright.) Will this cause any issues with the trannie? (All I see is I'll get more fluid in and not be able to drain all out. And will require alot of massaging to fit into a 144 trans tunnel...hehe.)

[Wagner]

I too felt that leaving the main shaft hanging in the air would be stupid and all wrong. But it has worked that way.

And here's what Captain Bondo replied in a different thread about m90s when i mentioned about the main shaft issue.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Bondo a long time ago

I had been worried about that, but when doing a clutch on an M56 I discovered it is the same way in the FWD, and people are putting TONS of power through the M56.
The M56 input shaft doesn't even have a little pilot section on the end of the shaft, it just kind-of ends.
Seems weird but that's how they are stock, which makes me feel less concerned about it.

So it seems that it is that way on all 800-series manual cars anyway.

[impulse922]

Very good deal. Thanks for clarifying the different ones Fred, I've been wondering about that for a while.

[BB-Q]

Just order a clutch kit from a later model TD 940. It's what I did and it mated to my 1993 940 turbo flywheel no problem.

[foggyjames]

I know of a man who is trying to sell a genuine Volvo release bearing and clutch disc for an M90 to be combined with the 'stepped' flywheel (228mm clutch)....both for a diesel, originally. This is the setup Chesh runs. It holds good torque, and is relatively forgiving. Just add the genuine Volvo pressure plate and you're set up! Aftermarket pressure plates have been found to not necessarily fit, so be careful!

£150 for the pair, which is a good saving off the list price. Shoot me a PM if you're interested.

cheers

James

[NeoSpeed740ti]

Originally Posted by AnthonyH

I'm still wondering about the pilot bearing, it feels very strange to have a transmission with no pilot bearing.

DSM's with 4g63s and manual trannies don't have pilot bearings (or shafts long enough for pilot bearings for that matter) so I wouldn't worry about it to much. First time i ever did clutch work on a talon I was like, WTF? where's the pilot bearing?

[foggyjames]

The M90 has a metal (Turbo) or plastic (NA) ring which fits in the place of a pilot bearing. It's not a bearing...looks more like a collet.

cheers

James

[AnthonyH]

Okie, got a call from the dealer today, they have one 850 228 mm disc instock.

Tomorrow a friend will bring his 4g63 evo5 pressure plate with him for me to see if I can mod it to fit the b21 flywheel.