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Old 09-04-2018, 09:29 PM   #1
moustacio
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Default Strut Rod to Body Bushings

I feel dumb asking but here goes,

88' 745 258K miles

Could bad bushings in the strut rods connecting to the body cause vibrations? I replaced the cone bushings as I've read when bad can cause vibrations. The bushings pressed into their rusty strut rods looked pretty bad as well.

Thanks for any help
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Old 09-04-2018, 10:12 PM   #2
dl242gt
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Yes, you know the answer is yes. The bodyside bushing gets compressed and hard. Eventually they can split. it's just that the cone bushings are the more well known ones because they go bad faster. It's good to check the control arm busing as well. I think poly is good to use on these on the body side bushing. Would firm up your braking feel.
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Old 09-04-2018, 11:04 PM   #3
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Thank you dl242gt
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:29 PM   #4
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Brake rotors?
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:24 PM   #5
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Thank you lummert I'll keep that in mind. However, I can't feel any vibration in the brake pedal while braking.

Is there any reason against NOT lifting the car while installing the strut rods?

I didn't lift the front end and now I get a weird shudder while turning going very slow. I'm going to lift the front end, loosen all the related bolts, snug everything back up, then drop the car and torque to specification. Maybe I messed up my steering rack while turning the wheel back and forth to get to the bolts?

Any help is appreciated

Last edited by moustacio; 09-12-2018 at 06:17 PM..
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:40 PM   #6
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Most chances all rubber bushings on the car are original. Even if they don't look bad, they're 30 years old. Plan on replacing them. I am going to be replacing the front control arms on my Wife's car with brand new ones to include new poly bushings and ball joints and outer tie rod ends when I replace her front shocks.
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:29 PM   #7
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Thank you for the response. The only components after doing the strut rods on the front end that haven't been replaced within the past 6 months are the control arm bushings.

Is it possible that I now have this weird shudder from not lifting the front end to reinstall the strut rods?

Guess I'll find out soon enough anyway but would like to know what y'all think if someone is so kind.

Thanks again everyone
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moustacio View Post
Thank you lummert I'll keep that in mind. However, I can't feel any vibration in the brake pedal while braking.

Is there any reason against NOT lifting the car while installing the strut rods?

I didn't lift the front end and now I get a weird shudder while turning going very slow. I'm going to lift the front end, loosen all the related bolts, snug everything back up, then drop the car and torque to specification. Maybe I messed up my steering rack while turning the wheel back and forth to get to the bolts?

Any help is appreciated
Tighten all the bolts with the car on the ground. You could have introduced air into the power steering fluid while turning wheels lock to lock. Also the strut rods are available in different lengths. I think there were shorter strut rods to help with the brake shudder.
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Old 09-13-2018, 01:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moustacio View Post
Is there any reason against NOT lifting the car while installing the strut rods?
Unless you have a pit it's almost impossible to R/R the strut rods without the car on a lift or jack stands. The important part is to leave the rear bolts (strut rod to frame) loose enough so those rear bushings will be in an unstressed neutral state when you do the final torquing on those bolts. Install the strut rods, lower the car to get it set on level ground, bounce the bumper a few times to settle everything out, then tighten the rear bolts.


What were the symptoms before? What are the symptoms now?
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Old 09-13-2018, 03:28 PM   #10
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Thank you lummert, I think you are correct about air getting in as the low speed shudder while turning is now gone.

Thank you tintintin. I was able to remove and install the strut rods with the car on the ground in my parking lot. Just need to turn the wheels out of the way. That's why I was asking if it's alright to install them this way. Didn't think it would be a problem but I'm thinking so now.

Symptoms were an intermittent vibrating/shaking steering wheel and butt and feet at most speeds but I drive mostly highway so that's where I would notice the most. After the strut rods were replaced yesterday the problem seems much worse after driving to work and back.

Other work include motor mounts, complete replacement of all driveshaft components, tires, wheels, etc. I'm sure there's more I've done. Also every front end component except the control arm bushing which seem fine while prying on them.

Thanks guys
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Old 09-13-2018, 03:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moustacio View Post
Symptoms were an intermittent vibrating/shaking steering wheel and butt and feet at most speeds but I drive mostly highway so that's where I would notice the most. After the strut rods were replaced yesterday the problem seems much worse after driving to work and back.
First thing to suspect are tires out of balance/tread separating/poor quality
Wheel(s) bent
Crud between hub/wheel mounting


Have you tried a quick swap wheels F to R?
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:46 PM   #12
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Hello and thank you. Yep, I've been through all of that and have good wheels and good/new tires, front to back rotations, cleaned hub to rotor, new hubs, rotated rotors to different positions with the lock pin, etc.

All this for a car with hail damage and a worn engine. I just won't give up on it, it's my favorite car I've ever owned.
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Old 10-17-2018, 07:13 PM   #13
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Thought I would stop in to say thanks again for the help and give an update.

For "fun" I replaced ball joints and outer tie rods even though I couldn't find any play in them, they had low miles, and both were TRW. That was a big part of my vibrations. Again for fun I put the new strut rods back in and the shaking is almost eliminated.

I've bought the bushings for the control arms in an attempt to once again have a great feeling ride. Quick question: has anyone successfully replaced these in situation with the ball joint press rental tool from the auto parts stores? Looks like a big c-clamp. I unfortunately have to work on the car in a my parking lot and my T-6 is currently not drivable.

Thanks again everybody
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Old 10-17-2018, 07:49 PM   #14
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Ball joint press didn’t work for me on a 940, was too small. I used a fork and had to jump on it to break the ball joint. All be it, this car has 250k miles and it had the OG ball joints. Problem I ran into, I replaced the ball joints and cone bushings, then the control arm stay to body bushing immediately went bad. No vibration just a loud clunk under the driver footwell when I turn at low speed.
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Old 10-20-2018, 07:29 PM   #15
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Hey thanks for the reply,

I'm trying to ask about the control arm bushings. But yeah pickle fork and a large hammer got my ball joints out.

Looking at the control arm it doesn't seem light the big c-clamp type bushing press would even work. Am I just really high to think that a BFH can pop the bushings out of the control arm on a car that spent 20 or so years in Chicago?

Thanks for any other help
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:03 PM   #16
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Hey everyone, I thought I would follow up with this thread.

I just finished installing the control arm bushings. I only took a short drive but my shaking steering wheel and vibrations seem to persist. Now every component of the steering and front suspension of the car has been replaced with new or confirmed good used parts. Also have done motor, trans mounts, accessory bushings, all driveshaft components, good new balanced tires and wheels with rotations front to back, left to right etc, no mechanical fan, harmonic balancer not slipping/coming apart, new brake pads all around, brake fluid flush, greased and properly moving guide pins, and I'm probably forgetting a few others.

Sorry for the long and dragged out post and thread but I thought I would throw this out there. I'm leaning towards rotors as Lummert suggested but the thing is sometimes while brake I get heavy steering wheel shake, other times under the same conditions no shake at all.

I will also post a tutorial of installing the control arm bushings if anyone is interested. There doesn't seem to be one for 700/900 models. But honestly if you can use a hydraulic press go that route. Really wasn't too bad though.

Thanks for everyone's help along the way

Last edited by moustacio; 11-27-2018 at 06:13 PM..
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:52 PM   #17
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I recently replaced the rear brake pads on my 88 765. After this the vibrations in my front end while stopping went away. The rear brakes pads get worn down nearly to metal and then start to slip and grab, even before making any noise. I still suggest checking the rear brakes. The rear pads are only about $21.

The steering wheel shake I experienced was moderate to severe when getting on the brakes at highway speed. Slow speed stops we not nearly as pronounced. Replacing the rear pads that had worn down to the bonding spots cured the issue.

On the front of your car you can improve on the brakes by upgrading to the jumbo brakes from something such as a 92-94 960. Same Jumbo front brakes should have also been used on 91-95 940, and 91-92 940 SE. Also maybe 91-92 740 with ABS brakes. Parts needed for this upgrade are the rotors, calipers, and caliper mounting brackets. If your car would happen to be equipped without ABS this upgrade would require brake line deleting.

Last edited by lummert; 11-27-2018 at 06:02 PM..
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Old 11-27-2018, 06:11 PM   #18
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Hi Lummert and thank you much for your response and suggestions.

Yes, rear pads were replaced not too long ago but it's definitely worth it to change again, especially since it's pretty easy and and I have a lifetime replacement on them. I would assume the rear rotors could also be bad as I have never changed them.

I have definitely been kicking around the idea of newer front brake calipers as well, as you suggest. Even more so because they no longer make the calipers for my car, bendex with abs. Also, because of how much better the newer versions are and less chance for warping.

Hey thanks again I really appreciate the help. I will surely give an update as I go. However, with winter coming and no garage it may be a while.
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:56 PM   #19
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Another question from my peanut of a brain:

I ran across this thread about a 960 of unknown year
http://www.turbobricks.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=154757

As Brandonp says "When installing the bushing you will notice that their is an arrow on the control arm that will relate to the notch on the bushing"

Am I correct to think that the bushing and control arm mentioned in the thread I linked is from a later 960? I could not find any markings on either the bushing or control arm on my 88' 745.

I guess I'm being paranoid but thought I would rule out any error on my part during the bushing install.

Other than that, even though a mild vibration persists, the car is driving better and the steering wheel shake while braking is mild to non existent depending on when the car wants to act up.

Thanks again and I'll update as I go
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moustacio View Post
Another question from my peanut of a brain:

I ran across this thread about a 960 of unknown year
http://www.turbobricks.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=154757

As Brandonp says "When installing the bushing you will notice that their is an arrow on the control arm that will relate to the notch on the bushing"

Am I correct to think that the bushing and control arm mentioned in the thread I linked is from a later 960? I could not find any markings on either the bushing or control arm on my 88' 745.

I guess I'm being paranoid but thought I would rule out any error on my part during the bushing install.

Other than that, even though a mild vibration persists, the car is driving better and the steering wheel shake while braking is mild to non existent depending on when the car wants to act up.

Thanks again and I'll update as I go
No mention of the 960 model year in that link. 92-94 960 would have same front suspension as 740/760/780/940.

Did you read this?

http://www.swedishbricks.net/700900F...%20Replacement

Last edited by lummert; 12-05-2018 at 02:13 PM..
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Old 12-05-2018, 07:14 PM   #21
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Hi lummert and thank you for all of your help.

Yeah, I was thinking they were discussing the later year 960s. That control arm bushing looks to need to be installed in a certain orientation.

So the type of bushing I installed in my control arm doesn't need to be oriented a certain way? besides being pressed in to the proper depth and the "collared" side facing the front.

I had another thought the other day: could I have installed the strut rods upside down? Or does this not matter.

Also, I noticed something else on my way to and from work today while driving more aggressively than I normally do. While accelerating pretty hard, at almost any speed, I would feel the vibrations begin and then it would persist. Pretty much the same outcome during negative acceleration.

And I have read the FAQ section you have linked, along with anything else I can get my hands on.

Anyway, thanks again and I really appreciate the help
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:11 PM   #22
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Could the vibration be drive shaft related?
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