Canadian 1984 244 DL B21A/B6304 project log.

The world works in insanely mysterious ways...

I decided to go to the local picknpull to check out a couple of volvos they got recently (94 850 and 98 S70) and while wandering my way to the back where they were, I detoured through the Domestics. I NEVER do that, and of course, today of all days, the day I say T5s don't show up in the local yards....I find a 95 Mustang V6 with a T5. The tag said 1352-238, and when I googled that...sigh...WC with the longer input shaft. The 94-95 V6 boxes were rated for 260 ft/lbs, which is still pretty darn good IMO, but I'll have to shim any adapter I get, or make, so no biggie. Or...I have to trim the input shaft, which is even easier .

While I was feeling pretty chuffed with myself, I went down to the volvos I was originally there for...and the 94 is a F**KIN MANUAL. DAMMIT. There's a high possibility that it's a single-mass flywheel. Looks like I'm going back! It's a heatwave here currently too, so that should suck pretty bad.

hahaha.

You should be able to get a foxbody V8 input shaft and swap it. That has the 3.35 first gear set which is the same as a foxbody v8 trans. Should work great with the 3.73 rear gear too.

Well, actually, if you could make your own adapter, then you could design in the correct spacing for that input shaft to work.

I think I have a 3.35 input shaft from a V8 that you could have. I'm swapping a 2.95. Just don't know when...

Jordan

240wagonguy said:

hahaha.

You should be able to get a foxbody V8 input shaft and swap it. That has the 3.35 first gear set which is the same as a foxbody v8 trans. Should work great with the 3.73 rear gear too.

Well, actually, if you could make your own adapter, then you could design in the correct spacing for that input shaft to work.

Click to expand...

I had thought about that. It looks like the mustang guys use 5/8" worth of spacer to a fox bellhousing when they don't want to use the SN95 one (or don't have one).

Anyone have the thickness of the common, off-the-shelf adapters handy? lol.

I'm probably still going redblock though, it feels more....right...for the car? Every couple of years I go through phases where I just want simplicity. Turn key, no need for wideband gauges, just vroom. Even slow vroom is good. After that, there's usually a need-for-speed that pops up, and that's when turbos and V8 swaps appear, lol.

It sounds silly, but I miss the B21A (although it would have a different carb, sold the OG stuff)...or carbs, depending. I always wondered what the car could have been like with the stock engine and a manual swap, because it was HORRIBLE with the BW55. I got like 12-14L/100km (19-17 MPG) with that silly Zenith single because it cruised at 3000 RPM @ 100kph (60mph).

So, short story long, now I have an M46 (and a boatload of parts for it on the way from IPD) and a T5. Two weeks ago I didn't have ANY manual transmissions, lol. When it rains, it pours.

GTJordan said:

I think I have a 3.35 input shaft from a V8 that you could have. I'm swapping a 2.95. Just don't know when...

Jordan

Click to expand...

Well, I would gladly buy that off ya when you do. Keep me posted, please .

Hmmm...I had forgotten about the 1030/1031 ring gear differences, so yeah, you'd have to find a good 3.31 axle or pay Sellholm through the nose to get that ratio. Six speed BMW boxes aren't exactly thick on the ground here in the US either, but I do see them pop up on cars being parted out every so often.

If you were going for a built B21A, it seems like the M46 would be the lower-effort choice. I can see the appeal in a tuned old-school setup.

A mild B21A, but I'll be keeping the Speeduino for ignition and datalogging. There's no reason carbs have to be full-on caveman, and when I've done this in the past, it's so nice to see exactly where the mains come in or the secondary opens. Makes jet choice much easier, and improves economy by leaps and bounds on a street car.

I found the T5 after my M46 refresh kit shipped from IPD...so I guess I'll have my choice of gearboxes for the conversion. It will be very handy to have a complete M46 for measurements when I make the adapter plate for the T5 (I also have a spare M47 bellhousing). I have started cleaning up my spare B230 in order to have an engine for mockup, because my B21A only has 128k KM on it and is in awesome shape. It's tucked away safe until needed again.

If I actually go through with all this, I will have whiteblock swap parts to sell I guess. Might be some extra goodies too, like the water/meth kit and boost controller...but I'm loathe to sell those just in case .

Broke4speed said:

It sounds silly, but I miss the B21A (although it would have a different carb, sold the OG stuff)...or carbs, depending. I always wondered what the car could have been like with the stock engine and a manual swap, because it was HORRIBLE with the BW55. I got like 12-14L/100km (19-17 MPG) with that silly Zenith single because it cruised at 3000 RPM @ 100kph (60mph).

Click to expand...

The difference is not that big until 60-70 kph comparing my b19 bw55 to a 1977 b21 m46. The m46 keeps accelerating after that while the bw55 just kind of stops. The 1977 was a factory m46 without overdrive so it had a 3.31 diff which could explain the slower acceleration.
Fuel usage was about 10L/100km and could comfortably cruise at 120. Top speed was about 170 where the b19 was 130-140. The b19 sat rock solid at 12L/100km btw.

Keep in mind of you don't have the overdrive, 4th on the m46 is 1.0 ratio just like 3rd on a bw55.

Had a 940 with a b230fb (130 hp, 531 head)/m47 once, that was kind of fun.


But a b6304 is much faster though... Mine has been dead reliable with stock ecu's. If also heard people putting a carb on them here for banger usage.

Well well...


Found this in a buddy's junkyard, which made me pretty giddy. Pulling it from a boat resting on the ground sucked 100%, especially since it was 33*-35*C, with unrelenting sun and no shade or wind. It's a bit of a mystery though, since the boat is marked '2.3L', and the date stamps say the engine is a B21 from 1975. There is no steel sleeve in exh port #4, and there's virtually no rust or dirt on the engine. It's a dual carb setup, and they're PLASTIC...which definitely means they've been replaced at some point in the recent past. The outdrive is a 275, and the tag on the engine states it should have been mated to a 280. The insane marine exhaust manifold came off super easy, and none of the other bolts were trouble either. I think I lucked out on this score .

Honestly, if it turns out to be nice inside (going to start inspecting it tomorrow), I'll probably use it instead of the mega-crusty and oil-charred 1993 B230 I was starting on.

So...I hoard redblocks now? There's a third under the cardboard, lol.

The B21 in front is the AQ140A I got yesterday, and the crusty B230 behind it is a squirter block from a 92. I was going to tidy up the squirter block and use it, but the AQ140A is in AMAZING shape...and turns smooth as butter. I know it's smaller displacement, and is a 160 head (big coolant passages)...but it's practically factory fresh. I plan on popping the head off and seeing how it looks inside, but I really think it'll be the best option. It's virtually the same as the B21A under the cardboard (126k), but...I guess I can save that for much later, lol.





I'm not sure if this is an important thing or not, or if I'm just learning it now vs. everyone else in the late 2000s...but boat motors come with un-machined flat flywheels? When I pulled the outboard bellhousing off, I was faced with a crazy thing that looked like a clutch hub, and it was bolted to a completely fresh flat flywheel. The ridge in the pic (the one on the bottom) is how thick the surface is when compared to the old flat flywheel on the top. One is flush, one is not. I'm wondering if I could get the boat one machined at the local clutch shop so I could use it vs. the rusty one.

Took the valve cover off the AQ140A...and there's a 'D' cam in it. Absolutely no oil staining or baked on crud. It looks like a fresh rebuild, TBH.

There's no downside so far!

Stopped by a local clutch company (Ottawa Clutch/Bully) to get a badly-pitted flat flywheel machined...and an hour later I had this:



I still have the AQ140A flywheel too, but it needs a lot of lightening before use. It's 4mm thicker than the stock flat one, and the rear recess is smaller too. It's HEAVY. I should sell it to STS, since they could probably make a useable one out of it .

I also did a bit of math and it looks like my adapter plate is going to have to be 1.25" thick if I stick with the SN95 input shaft. If I swap to the usual pre-94 one, the plate would be 1/2" thick. I guess it depends on which is more expensive...swapping shafts or a thick chunk of aluminum. I can definitely say it would be far easier to work with the thinner plate...but is it worth $200 CAD (ebay input shaft kit)...

It looks like you've decided to dive back into the cast iron tractor engine.... to each his own, I can't imagine leaving the inline 6 with it's modern tech versus the iron lump.

FWIW, I'm sure that DeeWorks makes a direct T5 adapter disk that registers into the whiteblock bolt on BH which is on your auto box behind the inline. I know that you know this..... but you really don't have to invent anything in order to built a whiteblock with T5 manual behind it. Most likely the slave issue is well resolved (check the Full Banana's 242 which I believe runs this trans).

That said.... carry on.

DET17 said:

It looks like you've decided to dive back into the cast iron tractor engine.... to each his own, I can't imagine leaving the inline 6 with it's modern tech versus the iron lump.

FWIW, I'm sure that DeeWorks makes a direct T5 adapter disk that registers into the whiteblock bolt on BH which is on your auto box behind the inline. I know that you know this..... but you really don't have to invent anything in order to built a whiteblock with T5 manual behind it. Most likely the slave issue is well resolved (check the Full Banana's 242 which I believe runs this trans).

That said.... carry on.

Click to expand...

There's nothing wrong with the whiteblock, it's actually pretty great...but I think I'd like to run a redblock for a while .

It's all been done, so there's an easy recipe for everything I'd like to do. I have never built an adapter plate, so I'd like to try. I find dealing with Deeworks.ca...exhausting. Their communication is...lacking...and I'd rather not deal with someone I have to harass just to get a tracking number or a shipping update. It's always gone the same way when I've ordered from him, which I guess most folks don't mind, but it drives me up the wall.

Ultimately, the cost of putting a manual box behind a whiteblock is what put me off. The trans isn't an issue anymore, but the flywheel is a $700 CAD expense of it's own, without a clutch or pressure plate. Then there's the hydraulic conversion, which is just a bit of my time, but then I have to buy/plumb the master...and an internal slave...and it all requires lines and fittings. Even if I made the adapter, I'd probably be out another 2k CAD minimum before I could even think about driving it. Right now, I'm only into the redblock T5 setup for about $200 CAD, since I got most of it in trades or for free.

I'll keep the main whiteblock swap bits, like the bellhousing, mounts, oil pan, etc, for the future .

Further down the rabbit hole!



I want to run as close to original/simple as I can, so that involves a centrifugal/vac dizzy. The AQ140A came with a centrifugal points distributor, but I am a big supporter of vac advance (because it works!) so I set about converting it to vacuum. I've got a box of miscellaneous VW points distributors so I pulled the points mount/sliding advance plate out of one and replaced the static one in the Penta unit. I left the penta weights and springs in there for now, even though they seem a bit heavier than the usual stuff. It's supposedly all-in by 2800, which is fine...but it's a maximum of 36*-38*, which seems excessively high. Then I drilled a couple holes in the body of the distributor for the canister, and voila...done. I'll probably pertronix it, because as fun as points are, they're not for me. I want to run a pretty hot coil, and the last thing I want is to burn up the points.

Now, I'm not a total heathen, and I've run carbed cars in the past...but I do it in a modern way. I am KEEPING the Speeduino on board to datalog throttle position (I will retrofit a TPS), AFR (wideband staying in), coolant temp, air temp, and RPM. It makes tuning a LOT easier, because you can see exactly where each jet comes into play, and where the flat spots are exactly. I find that traditional carb tuning is not as good as the 'experts' say it is, and on a previous VW Rabbit on dual carbs I had, I managed to eek out 30mpg while not losing any power/torque. Now, it was a smaller car and only slightly brick shaped, but it was a mildly cammed 1.8L 8v. I haven't decided on my carbs just yet, I want to do more research.

Fun fact: If you remove the throwout bearing sleeve from an M47/M46 bellhousing, and enlarge the hole to 1 7/16", it's a tight fit over the T5 bearing retainer sleeve. This allows you to get a very positive register for marking the bolt holes on a DIY adapter plate . The one I'm making is currently at the machine shop getting a 4.9" hole cut in the center to line up on the transmission securely. It's not critical to have it dead center, but I wasn't about to try to use a huge holesaw on a piece of 1.25" aluminum plate. I should be picking it up tomorrow and I can get started on marking the holes.

I've started cleaning up the AQ140A and so far it's the best engine I've ever had. EVERYTHING is in great shape, and the oil pan is 100% rust free. The red paint on the block is still bright, and even the frost plugs are shiny.

I also got the first part of the T5 adapter done. I had a 2.8" hole cut in the bellhousing (due to mistakes being made on my part on the first try) and I'm going to make a locating ring that fits over the T5 release bearing sleeve and press-fits into the bellhousing. This will allow me to drill the bellhousing holes in the adapter and center everything. After that, I can cut off the excess material and make it nicer looking.

I like where this is goin!

I got the bellhousing back from the machine shop, and turned down some locating rings on the lathe at work. Once I make a rack to hold the transmisison bellhousing-up, I'll be drilling and tapping the holes. Then an Ironworker buddy of mine is going to trim the plate down with the plasma cutter at the Union hall. I did not relish trying to do it with a jigsaw or sawzall.




I put some time into cleaning the head, which was already ridiculously clean, but now it's better. I am going to try to use the AQ manifold somehow, so I drilled and tapped it for a brake booster port. The part that goes between the branches is a balance port, so it was a pretty convenient place to mount it. I have it pointing downwards, so it's mostly invisible unless you flip the manifold .




For the people who are slightly confused as to why I'm swapping the whiteblock out...let me tell you that I sometimes wonder that myself. The best explanation I can offer is that I just want to go back to a simpler engine. The B6304 is modern tech, and it drives like it. I miss the sound of an old cast-iron tractor engine, even if it's going to be much slower. A decade or so ago I found myself fighting with my own 'need for speed', and it was seriously affecting my finances (see username), and after being content with slow for a long time, the desire for more and more power was starting to get out of hand again. I have to step back but I don't want to give up my car...so the turbocharged temptation is coming out. Extreme, I know, but it works for me.

The dilemma.
Before the T5 fell into my lap, I got this M46. I ordered a bunch of stuff from IPD to refresh it (and let me tell you, the premium to get it all into Canada is NOT low), then found the T5 a couple days later after it was too late to cancel. I just put all the goodies into it (fresh gaskets, new O/D tailshaft seal, STS bronze shifter bushings, and an STS delrin clutch cable bushing.

Now...what do I do with it? If I use the M46, all I need is a clutch/pp and the engine could be swapped now. If I wait for the T5...it'll be fall/winter and I still need a ford 8.5" disc, volvo PP, throwout bearing of some sort, and a custom driveshaft piece. UGH, I had NO manual boxes and now I have too many.