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B6304 wasted or sequential

J

Jyromefedx

New member
Joined
Oct 19, 2015
Location
Saskatchewan,Canada
Hello fine brickers. I am laying out a build on a b6304s engine and need some advice with what direction I should go in. What are the advantages of sequential firing vs wasted spark?
Which would be more achievable for a first timer who knows little about ECUs but is apt to learn?
I am trying to go with Haltech for an ECU solely because of their help line and tuning services but my domestic representative hasn't returned my email about which system would suit my needs. If anyone can link me some info for Haltechs on t5/t6 engines Id be grateful.
 
You can do wasted spark with a single sensor using a toothed wheel with a missing tooth (or teeth). If you do full sequential you will need a separate cam position signal and tach signal (which you will need if you are doing sequential fuel). So, it depends on what you have available for tach and cam signals and what coil(s?) are on the engine now.
 
Who is going to be tuning the car? (serious question) If you're taking it somewhere to get tuned after you get it running, find out what your tuner prefers.

wasted vs sequential for the average end user is a subtle difference at best.
 
Wasted spark is certainly simpler from an engineering and implementation aspect, and really it has few disadvantages until you get into crazy high RPMs or need that last 0.5%. For a street car I would go with wasted spark just for the simplicity, less to wire up, less to go wrong.
 
142 guy said:
You can do wasted spark with a single sensor using a toothed wheel with a missing tooth (or teeth). If you do full sequential you will need a separate cam position signal and tach signal (which you will need if you are doing sequential fuel). So, it depends on what you have available for tach and cam signals and what coil(s?) are on the engine now.
Click to expand...

I have the stock coils in, though I do have a set of S80 coils kicking around.
 
Stock coils are individual COPs? If so, you can set them up in wasted spark mode (fire two coils at once) or you can fire them sequentially. The amount of additional hardware that you will have to add in terms of drivers will be identical (I am guessing that they are not logic level coils?). The hardware saving would only occur if you were going to use dual ended coils in wasted spark mode - then you only need three coil drivers. The bigger issue is the cam and tach signals. If you don't have a cam signal you are not doing sequential and must do wasted spark with a tach signal that includes a missing tooth.
 
If you're talking about aftermarket engine management then yeah, once you have the cam sensor and COP then sequential is just a matter of the engine management supporting it.
 
Classic Swede says that the engine already has COPs so you don't need the S80 coils to do sequential ignition. Are the stock coils logic level coils or do they require a separate driver / igniter? If the stock coils require a separate igniter and the S80 coils are logic level coils there may be some advantage to using the S80 coils. If the stock coils are logic level coils then there would appear to be no advantage to switching to the S80 coils. I am guessing that the Haltech provides logic level outputs for the ignition channels for use with an external igniter or logic level coils?

You seem to be asking some really basic questions that you should have sorted out before attempting something like this. I suggest that you go to:

http://www.msextra.com/manuals/

Download the MS2 Extra hardware set-up manual. It will not be specific to your application; but, there is enough general information in there about ignition system set-up, including the different coil types. It will give you some sense of what you should be looking for in the Haltech ECU.

As an observation, the Haltech prices are not cheap. If this were my first project and I knew 'little about ECUs' I would not be picking a Haltech as my first ECU with which to experiment (unless you have money to burn).
 
142 guy said:
Classic Swede says that the engine already has COPs so you don't need the S80 coils to do sequential ignition. Are the stock coils logic level coils or do they require a separate driver / igniter? If the stock coils require a separate igniter and the S80 coils are logic level coils there may be some advantage to using the S80 coils. If the stock coils are logic level coils then there would appear to be no advantage to switching to the S80 coils. I am guessing that the Haltech provides logic level outputs for the ignition channels for use with an external igniter or logic level coils?

You seem to be asking some really basic questions that you should have sorted out before attempting something like this. I suggest that you go to:

http://www.msextra.com/manuals/

Download the MS2 Extra hardware set-up manual. It will not be specific to your application; but, there is enough general information in there about ignition system set-up, including the different coil types. It will give you some sense of what you should be looking for in the Haltech ECU.

As an observation, the Haltech prices are not cheap. If this were my first project and I knew 'little about ECUs' I would not be picking a Haltech as my first ECU with which to experiment (unless you have money to burn).
Click to expand...

I understand a little about ignition the actual mechanics of it but very little about this engine. I'll check out your resources , but I do have a bit of money to play with here.

Karl Buchka said:
960 coils don't have built in ignition modules, so you you'll need to install those in your MS box. DiyAutoTune has what you need (they're called VB921's). If you can get coils from an S80 T6, they'll have the ignition modules built in, negating the need for the VB921's.
Click to expand...
 
"In this case, the trigger pattern is supported in some fashion. (If the cam sensor pattern is unsupported you will be stuck with semi-sequential)

The recommended ECUs for an inline 6 cylinder are the Elite 750, Elite 2000 and Elite 2500."
-Haltech USA
I will have to look at the main differences but I think Ill go higher end 2500.
 
2018 Update

Well, I followed your folks advice. I have been studying up and things are making a lot more sense.

I plan on using the s80 coils because they do not need an ignition module. They are a 4 wire logic level COP (even though volvo only has it wired for 3) where the 960s are a 2 wire.
And of course a Buchka is correct, stating the 960s have notoriously bad connectors, extremely prone to failure under constant high temperatures, a weird thing to put directly on top of an engine.

I went with the Haltech Elite 750, as it made the most sense, the 2000, and 2500 are good but I really do not need those features.
 
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