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Different Take on a V8 Swap - Duder's 4.6L Twin Turbo 245

yeah so flat engine masters banned the mod motor from competing. LS what?

Heh. Apparently they were banned for a few years then allowed back in, albeit in their own class. Seems that now there are only 2 classes: traditional muscle, and vintage. Some of the stuff people do for that competition is pretty weird but inventive and impressive.
 
I've been doing lots of mockup, measuring, and good old staring at the engine bay & turbo system over the past few days. A few plans have been revised and others have been firmed up. I'm considering keeping my engine mounts as high as possible, tucked just under the exhaust manifold on either side. The log manifolds themselves will need a slight upward tilt to make that work. But it will give me room for exhaust downpipes underneath, as well as for the steering column and rack on the driver's side. I think building the mounts off of the top surface of the frame rails is a good idea, bolting in using the 4 subfame bolts, and then maybe a short stabilizer piece down to the crossmember.

Progress was made on the charge plumbing and intercooler fronts, but I'll take some photos and post that in a bit.

Also ordered a simple splined steering shaft from Coleman Racing to replace the big diameter damping dongus that would foul on the manifolds. Still need to install that, and evaluate moving the column pierce point in the firewall, to the left as viewed from inside the car.

In the meantime here are some early CAD screenshots of the engine packaging model within the 240 bay model that I mentioned earlier. Pretty clear that the oil pan will need to be notched, which will be next on my list after firming up the engine location and mounts.

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Nice model. I forgot you scanned the engine bay. That must be so nice. I'm jealous.

It is nice for sure. I had help though; can't take credit for the final model. I realized we forgot the steering rack pretty much altogether, and it is another thing that will foul on the front of the oil pan. So I need to get that in there too.

21st century TB in here, You're the Man Chris, this is rad. If you need sheet aluminum work let me know and I can try to help out.

Word! What kind of sheet aluminum work do you do?
 
It is nice for sure. I had help though; can't take credit for the final model. I realized we forgot the steering rack pretty much altogether, and it is another thing that will foul on the front of the oil pan. So I need to get that in there too.



Word! What kind of sheet aluminum work do you do?

I manage a sign shop, But we have 10' shear, break, 12' CNC router table, and access to any number of thickness and size aluminum stuffs. Most of our signs are aluminum any more.
 
I manage a sign shop, But we have 10' shear, break, 12' CNC router table, and access to any number of thickness and size aluminum stuffs. Most of our signs are aluminum any more.

Very cool, thanks for letting me know. I'll likely need to make some intercooler end tanks for this thing, and maybe some radiator ducting / blanking plates. I'm sure having them bent on a brake and/or CNC routed would be quite nice, actually!
 
What size pipe is intended to connect to the downpipe? I'm starting out looking at the feasibility of turbocharging my ls swapped 242 while keeping some bare semblance of stock exhaust routing. Without moving the motor, I currently have room for a 1.75 pipe down each side.
 
What size pipe is intended to connect to the downpipe? I'm starting out looking at the feasibility of turbocharging my ls swapped 242 while keeping some bare semblance of stock exhaust routing. Without moving the motor, I currently have room for a 1.75 pipe down each side.

I'd like to run 3" but doubt that is going to fit, so I'd be happy with 2.5" on each side which should be fine really. I'm thinking of each bank of this engine as a 2.3L redblock with one extra intake valve per cylinder, and VVT. Each of these twin redblocks will be making about 275hp at <10psi of boost, so turbine flow and pressure ratios will be relatively low, meaning 2.5" shouldn't be too restrictive.
 
Looking at the room I have on mine with 2.5" - I think 3" could be made to work, but you'd have to be really careful with routing -- and both sides would have to go under the rear axle, which is how I did mine. In any event, they do make 2.75" piping and ells....
 
Looking at the room I have on mine with 2.5" - I think 3" could be made to work, but you'd have to be really careful with routing -- and both sides would have to go under the rear axle, which is how I did mine. In any event, they do make 2.75" piping and ells....

We shall see - thanks for the input. Final exhaust sizing will have to wait until motor mounts are finished and I have an AC compressor in place.


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Speaking of tubing, I realized that I've scrounged a pretty good selection for the project. Mostly aluminum, which is great but I have a plan to minimize charge plumbing on this car. A lot of these pieces were from the original 2005 Mustang GT turbo kit test mule, and were being thrown out. Now they are measured, marked, and organized, ready to be put into use.

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Big selection of silicone hose connectors & reducers will come in handy. Even though they're mismatched some of them are NIB NOS NLA.


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Steel tube won't be as helpful but you can see the full left hand side downpipe from the display engine with two earlier development versions of the lower section, next to it. I do like the Norma spherical joint & clamp we used on this pipe because it lets you set alignment exactly but then locks the two pieces together solid. I'm likely going to use some 5-bolt to v-band adapters right at the turbine outlet, followed by simple exhaust plumbing (in the 2.5 - 3.0 inch range). The cast manifold and downpipe here were test parts from a 2.2L Ecotec turbo kit for the Chevy Cobalt. Great engine in a mediocre car. Maybe those will find a future use somewhere.


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This 750hp air-to-water intercooler core has been hanging out in my garage for quite some time, along with the scratch n' dent TiAl BOV. Current plan is to use the A/W core, positioned front and center between the engine & radiator fans. Charge plumbing will come right off of each compressor, to split hot-side tanks on the bottom of the intercooler core. Top side of the core will get a single large end tank and a short run of tubing with a slight bend up to the throttle bodies. Super short and simple. I'll have to brace the cooler to the front of the engine, but it simplifies my heat exchanger packaging. With no A/A cooler in front of the radiator, I can push the rad forward and have more room for the AC condenser, possible oil cooler, and will put the low-temp heat exchanger underneath for the A/W intercooler.
 
Interesting developments and setbacks this weekend...

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I've been researching BMW E39 rear suspension more & more, and found that the Touring (wagon) setup is different from the sedan, in a way that could be advantageous to swapping into a 245. The sedan has tall dampers that live in shock towers in the trunk / hat shelf area. The wagon however has the dampers laid down at more than 45 degrees, from the lower arm and attached to the subframe on a specific bracket. The only springs are airbags and there's a pair of accumulator tanks and a nice compressor assembly that lives in a little hat under the spare tire. All very nicely packaged and enticing for Volvo use.

The local junkyard (LKQ Pick Your Part in Wilmington) now has an auto email alert system, so I set it up to tell me whenever they get any new E39 into the yards. I check the photos to see if it's a wagon, which of course it usually isn't. Last week there was a nice '99 528i touring that popped up however, so Michele and I headed over there on Saturday morning to harvest the subframe. I found the car, checked with the cashier to get a price, which was $232 for the "Rear axle assy, independent D to D" plus rotors, calipers, and the rear sway bar. So we spend about 2 hours pulling the thing out (photo above)...cart it over on a wheelbarrow, get up to the same exact cashier, and he pulls out the "oh, you got a bunch of extra parts on there mang" line. :roll:

Ok, so I figure they are going to tack on $50 or $100 for the airbags, and whatever else they feel like charging me for. I'm not new to this and expect a bit of that. But this guy was out of control, and racked up an $800 price tag for the whole assembly, not counting the air compressor. Would've been $900 with tax! The guys told me "that's not what you asked for a while ago" (it was...) and "that's not a rear independent axle assembly." Yes it Effing is! What the hell is a "rear axle assy, independent D to D" if it's not this?!? I told them to shove it and I left the yard empty handed. Super frustrating but I felt like it was extortion to pay them $900 for this. It was all 528i stuff, so small brakes, small diff compared to 540i, and I likely would've replaced the axles, bags, bearings, seals, etc... I was down for $200 - $300 for an experiment, but they went over the line.

If I do pursue the E39 rear suspension / axle idea further I'll probably get a running driving beater and part it out. Or just buy this same exact thing from a bimmerforums member parting one out. Arggh.
 
Ugh, sorry to hear that. That's so upsetting. FYI, some e39 tourings were equipped with traditional springs in the rear rather than airbags (I had one like that).
 
Ugh, sorry to hear that. That's so upsetting. FYI, some e39 tourings were equipped with traditional springs in the rear rather than airbags (I had one like that).

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Thanks. I'll have to do some research about these coil besprung tourings.

You picked the right lady there if she helps you out.

That's for sure. She wasn't even upset, except felt sorry for me for not getting the parts I wanted. She likes going to the junkyard.
 
LOLWUT. Next to basically an entire car, nothing is worth $900 at a u-pick. Ah the crapshoot that is junkyard pricing.
 
That's ridiculous. But really interesting about the suspension! I'm very interested in where your experiment goes.

Me too! I'll post up any progress as it happens. For now though I'm going to focus on getting the engine swap done. Worst case I can make a quick driveshaft and shove somewhere less than 500 lb-ft of torque through the stock Volvo axle for a while, at least until the tuning is worked out.

LOLWUT. Next to basically an entire car, nothing is worth $900 at a u-pick. Ah the crapshoot that is junkyard pricing.

Seriously. I think it's the old bait-and-switch strategy. They hook you with reasonable prices posted online, and they give those numbers to you if asked for a quote in person. Then they bank on the customer falling for the sunk cost fallacy - "I've already spent all this time pulling these parts, I guess I have to buy them now..." and jack the price up by nickle & diming on every little piece they can see. Not honoring the quote that they gave based on an accusation that the customer is in the wrong; that the customer is trying to add parts on top and trick them. I'm sure they are trained to do this. Also seems that they target certain types of customers with this behavior, and maybe go easier on others, but that's a whole different discussion.
 
If I do pursue the E39 rear suspension / axle idea further I'll probably get a running driving beater and part it out. Or just buy this same exact thing from a bimmerforums member parting one out. Arggh.

Yes. I got my entire running driving Mark VIII donor for $1000.
 
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