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Old 06-07-2016, 07:17 AM   #1
ian2000t
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Default Toe settings - 760 17" wheels

What Toe setting should I be running on the front of my 760? Spec is:

- 40mm lower springs & bilstein shocks
- 17" Titans with 215/45/17 Eagle F1 AS3's
- extra braces - top strut brace, lower 940 brace, 960 cross member braces
- Camber mod
- All Poly bushes
- 24mm AR bar

I took it somewhere quickly the other day, and he set it to "standard figures" - he said 1.5 on the passenger side, and 1 on the driver side. Assume that's degrees, but not sure if it was toe in or toe out. Is that right, that one side toes in/out more than the other?

Drives OK, and doesn't "pull" but steering wheel needs to be slightly to the right.
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Old 06-07-2016, 09:54 AM   #2
johfraser
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To drive straight the toe must be equal. The crooked steering is compensating for the unequal settings. Units are hopefully mm. Toe is the difference in distance between leading and trailing edges of the front wheels. Download the Green Manual and look through the pages on alignment.

Get a stock alignment at another shop that uses computerized equipment and gives print outs of the before and after measurements.

Great looking Volvo!
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Old 06-07-2016, 05:48 PM   #3
ian2000t
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Read something that suggested different toe left/right is to compensate for the odd camber we get at the side of UK roads. Matthew this works fine with floppy 15" tyres?

I'll take it back down, they're good down there but just did it to the specs in their book. What settings should I ask for in mm - and toe in or out?

After there any figures for the 940 sport? This would probably be closest with the lower ride height and 16".
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Old 06-07-2016, 08:12 PM   #4
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Roads with a high center crown are not unusual anywhere there is rain or snow. Every road is a little different.

You can't make a fixed toe setting that will make the steering wheel straight on all roads. In fact you want the steering to tell you the road surface is slopping.

My advice, start stock and work from there. Talk it over with the folks on the Brickboard 700 forum.
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Old 06-08-2016, 06:41 AM   #5
DET17
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Wheel inch size is irrelevant for TOE settings. I run my DD at about 1 - 1.5mm toe IN. Since this is TB, you'll hear arguments as well to OUT, but that is purpose specific for AutoX, etc.

I think OEM spec is something like 1/16" (the 1.5mm)

I use the tape measure & stacks of bricks method for setting toe. Car sitting at ride height, NOT just dropped off a jack so the front suspension is not at "normal camber". With my 9, you can pull a tape rather easily right up the belly pan (front) and lower carriage brace (rear). Once you get the TOE where you want it, then driving tests will display how far off your steering wheel is from 12 o'clock. Just make incremental moves opposite on each tie rod end link until she's back at high noon. The DIY method......

Oh yes, for the ULTRA anal, roll it back in your garage another 180* of front tires and confirm your readings (opposite location of center rib of tire). If you've bought crap Korean/Chinese rubber, YMMV as far as the straightness of the center rib of the tire.
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Old 06-08-2016, 09:04 AM   #6
Chris Wilson
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Tyre outside diameter will affect toe measured in units of distance, but not in units of angle. To be absurd if you fitted 70 inch diameter tyres and retained say a toe *ANGLE* of 1 degree from 26 inch diameter tyres, that angle would not change, but the toe in millimeters or fractions of an inch would as it is usually measured on the rim diameter or tyre diameter. Larger wheel diameters, whilst retaining a similar tyre OD (lower profile tyre) should not require much change from stock toe settings. A more important concern may be caster angle, as a low profile tyre may not self centre the steering enough without an increase in caster angle. It seems the 700 / 900 series have a very modest amount of caster, and adding more may help directional stability and even help reduce over sensitivity to a tiny bit of disc run out. Wrong offset can cause gyroscopic precession, which is quite a complex subject.
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Old 06-08-2016, 12:36 PM   #7
DET17
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Yes, technically you are correct about OD. My vehicles have pretty much stock OD of tires; however I can't recall right off (at work now) if the measures are taken at the rim flange OR at the tire OD. What I do know is my 9 series tracks well with the stated 1.5mm of toe. Is more better? I would prefer more caster myself, as in my experience this REALLY improves tracking on the highway. We don't have much room for adjustment of the OEM parts..... there are threads written here about the "washer mod" which slightly increases the caster angle..... even a somewhat obscure radius rod which is longer (threads also have been dedicated to this, ad nauseam) which was fitted to some taxi/policecar or such over in Europa. Plenty of ways to improve the 7/9 front suspension.....

But this thread was just about toe settings, was it not?
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Old 06-08-2016, 12:40 PM   #8
DET17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian2000t View Post
What Toe setting should I be running on the front of my 760? Spec is:

- 40mm lower springs & bilstein shocks
- 17" Titans with 215/45/17 Eagle F1 AS3's
- extra braces - top strut brace, lower 940 brace, 960 cross member braces
- Camber mod
- All Poly bushes
- 24mm AR bar
OP, are you interested in handling of your beautiful 760, or did you just lower "for the look"?

If you want to restore your proper front roll center, buy the Kaplhenke "quick steer roll correctors" for your Brick. I've put a recent thread in Showroom......my car looked almost identical to your list, but after I added BNE's parts, it's a corner scorcher (for a Gpa!). OT a bit, but I strongly recommend those parts to restore your roll center and regain your front suspensions' full capability. Cheers!
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Old 06-08-2016, 12:48 PM   #9
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As several have stated, the angle will be the same. If looking for good wear, a little toe in will result in 0 tie going down the road due to bushing movement. I had mine set to factory, and drives well- I have similar mods on a 245. Stock is a good starting point, then watch your tire wear- that will tell the real story. Have fun.
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:01 PM   #10
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Can't post a photo with img tag from my phone, but this is where my alignment guy and I got mine set at.

https://flic.kr/p/HRCy5i
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Old 06-09-2016, 07:52 AM   #11
ian2000t
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OK, great thanks. I'll pop back down and see what they can do. I'll aim for slight Toe In then, equal each side.

I lowered for both "the look" and better handling. I'm interested in the Kaplhenke correctors, but out of my budget at the moment - need to spend on other bits first - ideally polybush the rear now.
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Old 06-09-2016, 08:44 AM   #12
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I'd go a touch more for fatter tires to keep them from wandering.
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Old 06-10-2016, 08:19 AM   #13
ian2000t
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Originally Posted by Redwood Chair View Post
I'd go a touch more for fatter tires to keep them from wandering.
A touch more Toe In?
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Old 06-10-2016, 04:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian2000t View Post
I lowered for both "the look" and better handling. I'm interested in the Kaplhenke correctors, but out of my budget at the moment - need to spend on other bits first - ideally polybush the rear now.
Sadly, when you lower more than an inch, you get WORSE handling. The front roll center is destroyed at a much higher rate (swinging the LCA radius) than lowering the CG improves (linear gain).

It's your money.....but I'd forestall rear poly work for the QSRCs. The improvement is rather amazing..... I dare say confidence inspiring.
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Old 06-13-2016, 03:53 PM   #15
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slight toe-in should keep the front end from wandering.

slight toe-out (or a lot of toe-out) will make the car darty on uneven roads, but it will turn-in really nicely. Toe won't add grip in steady state cornering, but it can help make the car want to turn. I wouldn't use toe-out on a street car.

Toe also wears tires unevenly if you go too far in either direction. Zero or slight toe-in is my preference, even for road racing. Slight toe-out only for autocross.
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Old 06-13-2016, 04:19 PM   #16
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Sounds more like camber settings is what he told you he set the camber at. They usually adjust the camber differently from side to side because of the road shape. Hard to adjust on a 7 series unless you have adjustable aftermarket camber plates up top.

Doing the tbricks camber mod is known to set the camber about 1 or 1.5 degrees depending on how far over you move it before you drill the new hole.
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Old 06-13-2016, 07:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbabbs View Post
Sounds more like camber settings is what he told you he set the camber at. They usually adjust the camber differently from side to side because of the road shape. Hard to adjust on a 7 series unless you have adjustable aftermarket camber plates up top.

Doing the tbricks camber mod is known to set the camber about 1 or 1.5 degrees depending on how far over you move it before you drill the new hole.
While camber may do that, caster is a non-wear angle that can be adjusted for crown without impact on tire wear. This would really be a driver preference based on how much driving is done on each road type. I prefer to set it equal, but that is just my preference.
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Old 06-13-2016, 10:14 PM   #18
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We'll the only thing you can adjust on a 740 is the toe-in. There is no way to adjust anything else without custom camber plates or lower control arms or adjustable stay rods. There was a factory bulletin about how to adjust the camber the same way as what we call the camber mod on tbricks. You know knocking out the studs that bolt the upper perch and re-drilling new holes for them in a different location.
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Old 06-13-2016, 10:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
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You know knocking out the studs that bolt the upper perch and re-drilling new holes for them in a different location.
I've even seen strut towers notched for adjustment somewhat like 240's.
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