Mediocre 242 - Page 28

t8fanning · 06-23-2019, 08:35 PM

Yes it is.

t8fanning · 08-09-2019, 09:57 PM

I've done a few things to the car. I flipped my rear brakes brackets over and installed my brakes the right way. I also modified an oil pan with some baffles and a tiny bit of extra capacity.

The pan is now powdercoated and installed with the new oil transfer tube to clear the ARP main stud. I made a post in that thread, but I'll also post it here if I want to look it up later.

Casey sent me the original tube he made for testing. I finally installed it and took some data.

The installation was easy enough, no appreciable difference from stock. However, it does take a bit of patience and precision to align the oil pump drive and the transfer tube outlet, and maybe a little more force than stock to remove due to tolerance stackup between the part and my specific engine casting. Take your time during installation to ensure a good sealing fit. It also should be noted that the flanges on either end of my tube do not butt up to the block or the oil pump. There is a small gap on either end, but it doesn't seem to affect sealing. Below are two pictures of the installation. One shows clearance between the ARP main stud and the transfer tube. The other shows the gap between flange and either end surface.

All data was taken at approximately the same ambient and oil temperatures. Data shows endine oil pressure produced by a year or two old Melling m181 pump with the IPD high pressure spring pumping Rotella T6 5w-40 oil in a B230FT with oil squirters in ~95 F ambient temp. I took data during a cold start, a hot start, and a full pull from ~1000 to 7200 rpm. Plots showing oil pressure obtained at various engine RPM during these events follow:

In general, there seems to be a small (~1-4 psi) pressure drop when switching to the Zelig transfer tube from stock. This is most noticeable during hot start and the pull. I don't think this will cause any problem for my engine setup, but if you have a 16v with oil squirters, it might be something to think about.

In both starting events, oil pressure takes longer to build with the Zelig transfer tube. This is seen with the lower oil pressure values at higher RPMs, signifying a longer ramp during starting to build pressure. I'm not quite sure how to explain this. I guess it could be oil initially escaping because the flanges don't butt up to their respective surfaces, but I don't know if I actually believe that. More likely, the tube and engine angles are slightly different, but I also don't know if that could be the cause. It may also be some function of my oil pressure sensor not accurately recording during cranking, but that's kind of hard to believe as well. In any case, it seems that full oil pressure is delayed a few hundred RPM during starting events with the Zelig transfer tube. I'm not sure this is a problem, but it happened with my engine.

I will leave the Zelig transfer tube in my engine. At high RPMs where the oil pressure really matters, there is no significant difference between the stock and the Zelig tube pressures. The main benefit of this tube is to allow for a full set of ARP main studs instead of having to use one bolt. I'll keep my eye on oil pressure for the next little while and see if anything changes. I don't think it will, but if it does, I'll update.

I'm having a pretty annoying steering wheel shake at 55 mph and above. I've road force balanced my wheels, checked all the front end bushings/ ball joints, and unhooked the power steering pump. I'm pretty convinced I have a bent hub. I plan to look into that a bit more in the near future.

blkaplan · 05-05-2020, 06:44 PM

Updates?

t8fanning · 05-05-2020, 06:54 PM

Nothing big really. It was parked over the winter and then I drove it from Michigan to Washington State. Now it's apart and I'm working on changing the transmission to something that shifts faster.

In addition to that I gotta fix a few things. My windows stopped moving for some reason, and I want to improve my turbo oil drain.

blkaplan · 05-05-2020, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t8fanning

Nothing big really. It was parked over the winter and then I drove it from Michigan to Washington State. Now it's apart and I'm working on changing the transmission to something that shifts faster.

In addition to that I gotta fix a few things. My windows stopped moving for some reason, and I want to improve my turbo oil drain.

What trans are you thinking about?

t8fanning · 05-05-2020, 07:00 PM

GS7D36SG from an M4.

Alex Buchka · 05-05-2020, 07:40 PM

All the cool kids are going dual clutch.

Stiggy Pop · 05-05-2020, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t8fanning

Nothing big really. My windows stopped moving for some reason, and I want to improve my turbo oil drain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by t8fanning

GS7D36SG from an M4.

master of burying the lede.

I'm going to start casually working the drain thing on my side, I'll let you know what we're thinking. At some point we should try to check that there's not a significant difference in the position of fittings on our setups if two of something get made.

RvolvoR · 05-07-2020, 12:42 PM

I'm stoked to see how many people this thing pissed off with the DCT in it and 30+ psi on ethanol.

t8fanning · 05-07-2020, 12:54 PM

I'm stoked to actually make my shifts.

cosbySweater · 05-07-2020, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t8fanning

GS7D36SG from an M4.

Approval rating is at a all time high

blkaplan · 05-07-2020, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t8fanning

GS7D36SG from an M4.

hmmm

So if you use something like this, you just have a flex plate on the engine because all the clutch magic is inside the transmission, right?

Alex Buchka · 05-07-2020, 02:10 PM

The OE installation uses a flywheel with a splined coupler on it, all the adapters I've seen including the whiteblock one I bought also has a flywheel. I don't know if anyone has tested one of these gearboxes with just a flexplate. There might be some control issues if you reduce the inertia too much.

Harlard · 09-17-2020, 05:43 PM

DIRY?

06-23-2019, 08:35 PM	#676
t8fanning 8v are still cool, right? Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cedar Hills, UT	Yes it is. __________________ 1982 242 Turbo.

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08-09-2019, 09:57 PM	#677
t8fanning 8v are still cool, right? Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cedar Hills, UT	I've done a few things to the car. I flipped my rear brakes brackets over and installed my brakes the right way. I also modified an oil pan with some baffles and a tiny bit of extra capacity. The pan is now powdercoated and installed with the new oil transfer tube to clear the ARP main stud. I made a post in that thread, but I'll also post it here if I want to look it up later. Casey sent me the original tube he made for testing. I finally installed it and took some data. The installation was easy enough, no appreciable difference from stock. However, it does take a bit of patience and precision to align the oil pump drive and the transfer tube outlet, and maybe a little more force than stock to remove due to tolerance stackup between the part and my specific engine casting. Take your time during installation to ensure a good sealing fit. It also should be noted that the flanges on either end of my tube do not butt up to the block or the oil pump. There is a small gap on either end, but it doesn't seem to affect sealing. Below are two pictures of the installation. One shows clearance between the ARP main stud and the transfer tube. The other shows the gap between flange and either end surface. All data was taken at approximately the same ambient and oil temperatures. Data shows endine oil pressure produced by a year or two old Melling m181 pump with the IPD high pressure spring pumping Rotella T6 5w-40 oil in a B230FT with oil squirters in ~95 F ambient temp. I took data during a cold start, a hot start, and a full pull from ~1000 to 7200 rpm. Plots showing oil pressure obtained at various engine RPM during these events follow: In general, there seems to be a small (~1-4 psi) pressure drop when switching to the Zelig transfer tube from stock. This is most noticeable during hot start and the pull. I don't think this will cause any problem for my engine setup, but if you have a 16v with oil squirters, it might be something to think about. In both starting events, oil pressure takes longer to build with the Zelig transfer tube. This is seen with the lower oil pressure values at higher RPMs, signifying a longer ramp during starting to build pressure. I'm not quite sure how to explain this. I guess it could be oil initially escaping because the flanges don't butt up to their respective surfaces, but I don't know if I actually believe that. More likely, the tube and engine angles are slightly different, but I also don't know if that could be the cause. It may also be some function of my oil pressure sensor not accurately recording during cranking, but that's kind of hard to believe as well. In any case, it seems that full oil pressure is delayed a few hundred RPM during starting events with the Zelig transfer tube. I'm not sure this is a problem, but it happened with my engine. I will leave the Zelig transfer tube in my engine. At high RPMs where the oil pressure really matters, there is no significant difference between the stock and the Zelig tube pressures. The main benefit of this tube is to allow for a full set of ARP main studs instead of having to use one bolt. I'll keep my eye on oil pressure for the next little while and see if anything changes. I don't think it will, but if it does, I'll update. I'm having a pretty annoying steering wheel shake at 55 mph and above. I've road force balanced my wheels, checked all the front end bushings/ ball joints, and unhooked the power steering pump. I'm pretty convinced I have a bent hub. I plan to look into that a bit more in the near future.

05-05-2020, 06:54 PM	#679
t8fanning 8v are still cool, right? Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cedar Hills, UT	Nothing big really. It was parked over the winter and then I drove it from Michigan to Washington State. Now it's apart and I'm working on changing the transmission to something that shifts faster. In addition to that I gotta fix a few things. My windows stopped moving for some reason, and I want to improve my turbo oil drain.

05-05-2020, 07:00 PM	#681
t8fanning 8v are still cool, right? Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cedar Hills, UT	GS7D36SG from an M4.

05-05-2020, 07:40 PM	#682
Alex Buchka 8 cylinders Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles	All the cool kids are going dual clutch.

05-07-2020, 12:42 PM	#684
RvolvoR Board Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: PDX	I'm stoked to see how many people this thing pissed off with the DCT in it and 30+ psi on ethanol.

05-07-2020, 12:54 PM	#685
t8fanning 8v are still cool, right? Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cedar Hills, UT	I'm stoked to actually make my shifts.

05-07-2020, 02:10 PM	#688
Alex Buchka 8 cylinders Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles	The OE installation uses a flywheel with a splined coupler on it, all the adapters I've seen including the whiteblock one I bought also has a flywheel. I don't know if anyone has tested one of these gearboxes with just a flexplate. There might be some control issues if you reduce the inertia too much.