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16V or 531

SEslayer

Dumber than I look.
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Location
New Zealand
so i have a 16V and other bits i pulled from my 16V N/A sitting in my garage.
but i have been offered a 531 head for less than what i should be able to sell the 16V for.
what i want to know is how big is the difference?
i am aiming for 350hp starting figure, probably 400.
im not sure what to do, unfortunatly i have 3 months a year that i actually earn decent money. (im a student)
so i have a very limited budget and am planning to spend less than 5k so make it 4k usd considering i need to pay for shipping from yoshifab and the conversion rate.
i already have a 1990 740 T and am planning to put a TH350 behind it.
so considering i already have the head and motor, oh and a 16T. what does everyone think is my best option?
 
Considering your in NZ id be leaning to the 531 head as its a very common and well walked path, so if any issues show up it can be quickly troubleshot and fixed with minimum down time. 16v conversion requires trickier parts that if they fail or you have issues will require a considerably longer turn around especially with shipping.

That said a 16v will make the power you are after easier, and the 8v will need some love if your trying to push those kind of numbers which could end up being more expensive.

Id do the best i could to research each avenue as much as possible, and using that information deciding on the one that makes the most sense.
 
531 with the right mods and turbo will put down 400whp. I believe Boris on here is about there now with a T3/T4.

16v is capable of more power, however.
 
When I swapped the 531 onto my wagon's motor, it was easy, relatively cheap, and made a very modest improvement. It went on with a 16T, IPD Turbo cam, and some larger exhaust valves.

When I swapped the 16V onto the motor, it was complicated, expensive, and made a lot of improvement.

A completely stock 16V head will flow better than an 8V head with $$$$ of work in it and with a $$$ cam.
 
Why did you pull the head off of the b234x (16v) gle? Id use that car instead. Just keep up with the regular maintenace on the timing belt and you should be good.
 
A completely stock 16V head will flow better than an 8V head with $$$$ of work in it and with a $$$ cam.

And with fairly minimal work---like bigger intake valves to get the balance of intake flow to exhaust flow in a better balance----it makes more power even easier...

Simply put if the option is there---speaking of getting the head on the block----the 16v is better in every way....the cost of a few tensioners and a belt is piddly compared to head work...From a detonation risk point of view, the 16v again is far better..
 
so i have a 16V and other bits i pulled from my 16V N/A sitting in my garage.
but i have been offered a 531 head for less than what i should be able to sell the 16V for.
what i want to know is how big is the difference?
i am aiming for 350hp starting figure, probably 400.
im not sure what to do, unfortunatly i have 3 months a year that i actually earn decent money. (im a student)
so i have a very limited budget and am planning to spend less than 5k so make it 4k usd considering i need to pay for shipping from yoshifab and the conversion rate.
i already have a 1990 740 T and am planning to put a TH350 behind it.
so considering i already have the head and motor, oh and a 16T. what does everyone think is my best option?


If you are a broke ass student as you state and you decide on a whim to make "400" hp, what are you planning to do for; motor mounting? Flywheel, clutch, gearbox, back axle, brakes, suspension to use that 400 Bee Haitch Peas?
Because all those things will want upgrading..

Have you ever owned a 300 HP/300 ft/lbs car?

What have you owned?
 
Not to mention, the lifespan on a 300+ hp redblock isn't really in the 100K+ mile range any more. Unless you can afford to blow it up and have it sit around a garage dripping oil and bleeding money for months at a time, maybe you shouldn't be rolling the dice on a high HP build.
 
Will run a TH350 trans will easy handle the power cheep and it means i can run a custom shifter and a trans break.
The number i pulled out my ass, i want it to be around what a worked SR20det or an evo will run. It seems like a perfectly reasonable number for a 16vT.
I am familiar with the power, i come from a drag racing family and will drive a 6 second funny car in the next few years.

As for the car sitting bleeding in the garage, that is impossible. The garage is full it will be bleeding on the driveway.
The car has already been bleeding on my driveway since march.
Im not worried with this as i will have no money to fix it march to november but over the summer break i will have lots of expendable income to fix it or upgrade it.
 
And as for axels and diff, one of our close family friends owns a diff workshop. And motor mounting i got no idea but i will cross that bridge when i come to it.
 
Not to mention, the lifespan on a 300+ hp redblock isn't really in the 100K+ mile range any more. Unless you can afford to blow it up and have it sit around a garage dripping oil and bleeding money for months at a time, maybe you shouldn't be rolling the dice on a high HP build.

What do you feel is the sweet spot for a highly reliable 16vt? What work would need to be done to get a 300+whp 16vt to last a very long time?
 
Its all about how well its built, how high quality the parts are, and most importantly how you drive it. I cant imagine i could be any less reliable than a 8V with 300hp.
 
I'd have to leave the answer to that question up to the people who have had continually running 300+ whp for large numbers of miles at a time.

A 2.3L motor is just a highly stressed little pile of moving parts. The redblock is a sturdy little motor, but still, making triple the HP stresses it quite a bit.

The more the HP goes up, the more on-point the tuning has to be. The leeway between running fine and blowing up gets narrower and narrower the higher the power goes. Any slight tuning issue, any slight mechanical issue, gets magnified significantly.

I'm a talentless clown, I'm about done with trying to make the redblock make that much HP. It's running fine now, but the next time it blows up in a significant way (last time it needed a block and 4 new forged pistons) I think I'm just going to put an LS or a 2JZ in it.

On some level I like making gobs of HP from the humble 2.3L motor it (sort of) came with, but on another level I just want it to have a faintly ridiculous amount of HP and to just keep working for several years/say 50K miles at a time.
 
Thanks for the advice. My vision for my next 16vt is to overbuild the engine to be capable of 400whp with a proper tune and then just dial it down and run 300-320whp. I just want to have a great build as a wonderful project that I can be proud of that makes all sorts of fun noises and gets me on the highway at dumb speeds.

Plus, nothing really compares to the speeds and accelerations that most modern motorcycles are capable of. I think daily driving something that goes 0-120 in 7ish seconds really put cars into their own perspective. Now I just want a nice daily driver with accessible power that allows me to effortlessly overtake people and can even more effortlessly break every speed limit in the country. You know, reasonable goals. :lol:
 
Thanks for the advice. My vision for my next 16vt is to overbuild the engine to be capable of 400whp with a proper tune and then just dial it down and run 300-320whp. I just want to have a great build as a wonderful project that I can be proud of that makes all sorts of fun noises and gets me on the highway at dumb speeds.

Plus, nothing really compares to the speeds and accelerations that most modern motorcycles are capable of. I think daily driving something that goes 0-120 in 7ish seconds really put cars into their own perspective. Now I just want a nice daily driver with accessible power that allows me to effortlessly overtake people and can even more effortlessly break every speed limit in the country. You know, reasonable goals. :lol:



The bike comparison is a good sobering one. I started serious work with cars after about 17-18 years with good high quality Husqvarnas and KTM moto-cross bikes.....and that was long ago.
But even then and especially in years past I point out to the mooks wanting to build crazy projects the performance and the reliablity of simple bad ass street bikes and kinda suggest that building a car with similar performance and reliability takes a very coordinated package and a big wallet.....and leaving out any one area--like gear set or final drive or brakes is gonna sink the whole experience....and its not that we don't know how to build them, its the accurate and consistent tune as John Mc points out....
As I see it the biggest problem is that far far too many fixate on MOTOR and big numbers but I gently suggest we don't drive motors around, we drive cars...whole cars...

Again following the bike metaphor, everything about a given bike is right there in front of you...and there's no mistaking the intended use: a road burner doesn't look like a KDX enduro bike and that doesn't look like a Super Motard and that is different than a cross-bike and then there's POS things which are just expensive fashion statements which are conspicuous consumption objects and are Hardly Ableson to do anything at all...

But a car is just a car and if you're brainless and don't care about ruining ride AND handling and "slam it' well we can see that but there's not a lot of seeing the important stuff.....
So pretty gee-gaws and shiney trinkets become important----miles of schedule 80 weld els and massive T bolts good for 70+PSI for a motor making 17psi..

That all may be why I like the way well done coordinated gravel rally cars go and work. The PULL, they do good Zero to whatever you dare QUICKLY, they are quick on any surface---sh*t works on them....I joke "the only thing changed is the final drive to protect the innocent" (and I guess some like carpets, I guess...go figure)

275-280 Haitch Peas and 350 ft/lbs backed by a good gearset and around a 4.3 axle flat shocks most people (which it shouldn't......that's what many ol 'Merikun cars did 40-45 years ago only we have one more gear and 1000 lbs less weight...)(and better steering and can do much much better suspension)
 
Hardly Ableson :lol:

I agree with you completely on everything you've said, John. I was going to do something crazy with my current motor but decided to bite the bullet and get my suspension to stage 0. Poly bushings everywhere, Ben's axle bearings, quick steer, new springs, struts, shocks, -0.5 camber... next is braided lines, a built T5, and servicing my calipers (unless you can think of something better?) and truthfully I haven't been happier. It's not the most mindblowing track setup but after sway bars it will handle better than a lot of modern cars. Low and slow is great, but you aren't impressing anyone every time your subframe and fart exhaust drags across a supermarket parking lot speed bump.

I also love rally cars for the same reason I love supermotos: sure you top out at 80-100, but the real hardest part about getting there is the massive hardon you have while doing it. I'd love to make a rally car and I think it will happen after I get a KTM 690 SMC. ;-)
 
It always amazes me how quickly turbobricks goes doom and gloom on 8v redblocks. There are plenty of examples of 3-500bhp 8v redblocks out there, many doing just fine, most aren't held together with the tbricks receipe of hopes and dreams however.

For the cost effectiveness, effort and hassle, nothing will beat a worked (even midly) over 531. I mean, litterally everything (except k-jet) will bolt on and up to it from the factory.

Will a 16v head make more power? Yes. Is it a much more involved process (especially in a 240), YES.

BTW I still think a nasty cammed 8v redblock is the best sounding Volvo motor.
 
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