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Old 02-12-2020, 02:52 AM   #926
cosbySweater
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What fan were you using?
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:28 AM   #927
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What fan were you using?
I was using a SPAL 14" low profile fan.

If I move my existing radiator forward, I would use something like this: Darale High-Output Single 14" Fan
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:07 AM   #928
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Yea I would move it forward to get something better. Not trying to be a negative Nancy but that spal fan is a piece of junk lol
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:17 AM   #929
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Yea I would move it forward to get something better. Not trying to be a negative Nancy but that spal fan is a piece of junk lol
Yeah it doesnít move much air at all. I definitely wonít use that fan again. I just hope the radiator itself isnít too small.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:49 AM   #930
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I didn’t see your shroud situation, but I noticed a huge difference after spacing and sealing my fan shroud back 1/2”. Fan never comes on unless I’m completely stopped for a minute or two.

I’m using a 2 row scirocco, 12.5x19.5, and a single 12” fan that doesn’t move a ton of air. When I had the fan mounted with the cheap zip tie things it was on almost constantly.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:41 PM   #931
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I didnít see your shroud situation, but I noticed a huge difference after spacing and sealing my fan shroud back 1/2Ē. Fan never comes on unless Iím completely stopped for a minute or two.

Iím using a 2 row scirocco, 12.5x19.5, and a single 12Ē fan that doesnít move a ton of air. When I had the fan mounted with the cheap zip tie things it was on almost constantly.
That SPAL fan was mounted directly to the radiator, with no shroud. I guess I'll try using my old radiator with a good fan and shroud.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:56 PM   #932
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How much room do you have? You're gonna need a shroud as well. That darale ain't much better without a shroud
. It's better but not by much. Over heated in traffic with my Hilux with that thing pretty easily. Get a oem fan honestly, they are usually the best quality
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:03 PM   #933
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I ran aluminum C channel 1/2" around the perimeter of the radiator with some foam tape on the side against the radiator, and riveted a sheet of 1/8" ally to it with a 12" hole for the fan. My fan is offset, and I might do a few flapper doors on the opposite side that blow open under typical driving and get sucked shut when the fan is on, but I havent had any issues under speed, so its probably not necessary.
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:40 PM   #934
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How much room do you have? You're gonna need a shroud as well. That darale ain't much better without a shroud
. It's better but not by much. Over heated in traffic with my Hilux with that thing pretty easily. Get a oem fan honestly, they are usually the best quality
Depending how far forward I can get the radiator, I should have enough depth for pretty much whatever fan. The issue is the width of my radiator. All the OEM fans I've seen are too big.
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:42 PM   #935
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I ran aluminum C channel 1/2" around the perimeter of the radiator with some foam tape on the side against the radiator, and riveted a sheet of 1/8" ally to it with a 12" hole for the fan. My fan is offset, and I might do a few flapper doors on the opposite side that blow open under typical driving and get sucked shut when the fan is on, but I havent had any issues under speed, so its probably not necessary.
That sounds nice and simple. I'm sure I can come up with a suitable shroud.

What radiator do you have? Is it a double pass Scirocco style one?
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Old 02-12-2020, 04:07 PM   #936
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I think I have the part number around for my DeRale as well, 1500/2200cfm 2-speed with a shroud that fit the stock radiator really nice. With that I rarely see it come on unless it's in traffic, and even then low was enough, at 90* ambient. Granted I've only driven it a half dozen times since install, but watching water temps it did really well. lol
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Old 02-12-2020, 04:17 PM   #937
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That sounds nice and simple. I'm sure I can come up with a suitable shroud.

What radiator do you have? Is it a double pass Scirocco style one?
Yes, ish... itís a gpi scirocco that I had to put a baffle in because it was straight up end tanks instead of two (in and out) on one side and a single on the other.
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Old 02-13-2020, 01:39 PM   #938
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So I'm really conflicted on what to do with this radiator situation. Not having to buy a new radiator would be cool, but dealing with notching the frame to get it low enough is a pain. Finding a suitable Scirocco (13x22") radiator would mean no frame cutting, but I wouldn't be able to run as big a fan.

I assume a dual pass radiator with slightly more surface area would cool more than my current single pass, but is that worth giving up some fan capacity?
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Old 02-13-2020, 02:00 PM   #939
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Once I move to the air>water ic, I’m planning to add a second 10”... there’s a few guys that I autox with that run them on v8 swapped cars with 2x 10” fans and they don’t have any problems driving them to and from tracks and sitting in traffic. It’s all about the low pressure zone behind the radiator. Their engine bays are well sealed up front with some ventilation at the rear, and skid plate below to keep the bay at very low pressure
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:07 PM   #940
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You can always make a shroud to let the larger fan work. My truck actually does something like that, with a drop on the bottom side where the blades run below the tank about 2". Then you could run a 15" fan on a 13" tall radiator.
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Old 02-13-2020, 05:23 PM   #941
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I’ve been told that “Air is lazy” and will more readily flow around an object instead of through it. If your existing radiator isn’t fully shrouded and sealed around the full perimeter, air is escaping around it instead of through it. This will greatly diminish the effectiveness of your radiator both while sitting and moving at speed. The only reason to worry about increasing the fan airflow rate is when your sitting still or barely moving. If you were having issues above 30mph or so, try making sure there aren’t any ways for airflow to escape around the radiator.
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:23 PM   #942
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I think I have the part number around for my DeRale as well, 1500/2200cfm 2-speed with a shroud that fit the stock radiator really nice. With that I rarely see it come on unless it's in traffic, and even then low was enough, at 90* ambient. Granted I've only driven it a half dozen times since install, but watching water temps it did really well. lol
The derale/flex-a-lite shrouded fans are great. I have a ~3k cfm one on the v8 drift car, it almost never boils over. Itíll usually sit at 210-220 while it bounces off the rev limiter for 6 hours straight.

If you look at all the race cars that use Spal fans, the fan is usually 6+ inches from the core and with a fully sealed shroud. Just mounting one to the back of the rad doesnít do much.
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:25 PM   #943
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Given the caveat that I've yet to run hot coolant through it I just put a reverse Scirocco radiator into my 142 with B230FT conversion.

I was able to get it far enough forward that the back of the new radiator fell about where the front of the old one was. I did need to notch out the top sheet metal cover to fit the cap. After there's some kind of compliant bumper on the bottom ears, everything just clears the hood. I still need to find a spot for the overflow tank and I could put a little sheet metal in to better seal things up. I'll try and get some pictures if anyone is interested.

Since the water pump is off center I also used that to sneak in a slightly deeper fan.

Griffin Radiator I used

In round one of the conversion I used the stock radiator and a mechanical fan and that seemed to keep the temperatures under control but I also timed driving it so I never needed to sit in bumper to bumper traffic on a hot day. The fan cleared in front by about 1/8" and the alternator belt by ~1/8". It's nice to go back and look at some of these decisions.
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:10 PM   #944
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Given the caveat that I've yet to run hot coolant through it I just put a reverse Scirocco radiator into my 142 with B230FT conversion.

I was able to get it far enough forward that the back of the new radiator fell about where the front of the old one was. I did need to notch out the top sheet metal cover to fit the cap. After there's some kind of compliant bumper on the bottom ears, everything just clears the hood. I still need to find a spot for the overflow tank and I could put a little sheet metal in to better seal things up. I'll try and get some pictures if anyone is interested.

Since the water pump is off center I also used that to sneak in a slightly deeper fan.

Griffin Radiator I used

In round one of the conversion I used the stock radiator and a mechanical fan and that seemed to keep the temperatures under control but I also timed driving it so I never needed to sit in bumper to bumper traffic on a hot day. The fan cleared in front by about 1/8" and the alternator belt by ~1/8". It's nice to go back and look at some of these decisions.
I'm definitely interested in seeing photos. I hadn't really thought about hood clearance being an issue, but if I'm moving it forward, the hood will be lower at that point. I did just make the executive decision to cut off the stock radiator supports. This gives me freedom to put stuff wherever I want, and I'll probably end up making a tubular radiator/intercooler support of some kind.





I see everyone's points about shrouding both in front of and behind the radiator.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:48 PM   #945
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Looking at that picture I think I'm trying way too hard to keep that sheetmetal as I'm turning it (awkwardly) into more and more Swiss cheese. My general plan is to get everything run and then patch things up.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:25 PM   #946
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Looking at that picture I think I'm trying way too hard to keep that sheetmetal as I'm turning it (awkwardly) into more and more Swiss cheese. My general plan is to get everything run and then patch things up.
I kept the stock sheet metal for the 8 valve setup. It was nice to keep it more stock looking, but I had huge holes in the radiator shroud pieces for the IC plumbing, and the oil cooler lines. Figured I'd force myself to find a different solution this time. Plus, my new manifold puts the turbo much further forward.
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:40 PM   #947
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Maybe this thing finally needs a build thread vs. cluttering yours. I'd just feel too bad about the infrequent updates.





The general scheme is to miss everything with the oil relocation lines and then send them up and past the lower radiator hose to the filter/oil cooler thermostat just left and below the intercooler silicon.
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Old 02-15-2020, 11:50 AM   #948
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I'm curious how that will do, cooling-wise. Looks very similar to my fan setup, which didn't move enough air. I think your treatment of the radiator supports and top radiator cover looks great, though.

You mentioned barely clearing the hood. I assume that's just the filler neck? Do you have any pics of the mounting tabs at the bottom of the radiator? I'm thinking about that same radiator, but using a 240 style expansion tank and filling it from there. Not having the filler sticking up would help move it further forward, making room for the fan and shroud.
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Old 02-15-2020, 03:06 PM   #949
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Manifold is all tacked, thanks to Noah. I did a couple tacks myself, which was enough to convince me to get a tig. A friend from back east is shipping me his old Hobart. Pretty excited for that.

I knew it would be complicated to make one of these, but it's going to be such a pain to break it apart and get it welded. The collector I used has a such a short merge that those joints will be very hard to get to. We'll figure it out, but it's a lot of work!
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Old 02-15-2020, 05:27 PM   #950
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That's awesome good work
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