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Old 03-23-2020, 05:05 PM   #51
benflynn
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6.0s are 1100$ish around here. 5.3 are like 350-600.
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Old 03-23-2020, 05:08 PM   #52
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You can also get a brand new harness from Dave Barton for about 350 that's basically plug and play and he has a list of all the parts and pieces for the swap on his website make a couple junk yard runs and your ball park there. You can also keep your breaks drive line and suspention the same until you run into problems
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Old 03-23-2020, 05:21 PM   #53
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He doesn’t need to spend a dime on a harness. The harness in his 1989 240 will do the job perfectly.
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Old 03-23-2020, 05:58 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Ceej View Post
My wifeís uncle is a die hard Mustang guy and he keeps bugging me to 5.0 swap it. Did you keep the fuel injection? Heís saying to do HCI and switch it over to a carburetor.
Kept it EFI, but used an Explorer/GT40 intake manifold.

A Summit Quadrajet and a $250 intake would allow for enough fuel and air to hit 450hp with ease. Toss on a programmable distributor for $200 and you have a running car. It's a bit crude, but it'll do the job.

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Very true lol. Also, I just looked into making a 5.0 put out 300hp+ and it seems to be pretty damn expensive.
Making power is not that expensive. Get some ported GT40 or ProMaxx/Edlebrock aluminum heads (aim for 58-61cc on the chambers), and get a Trick Flow Stage 2 cam or a billion other cams.
The "V2" engine I posted up above is a combo that routinely makes well over 450-500hp to the crank when running a carb. I'm using the GT40 intake, so it's probably in the 350-400hp range. That's with about an hour of tuning with the microsquirt ECU.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:01 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by 240wagonguy View Post
If you want a cheap stick shift for LS swaps, check out Fabbot. it's a $420 (Nice) adapter that uses a 4L60E bellhousing (pretty much free) and a Colorado AR5 trans. Those are cheap, like $100 to 200 already pulled from junkyards around here. They can hold 600hp+ apparently. No exotic clutch setup either, just an fbody LS1 flywheel and clutch kit.
Interesting.

I've found the Nissan 6-spd to be a bit of overkill. I've never had a 6 speed before, and it just seems like... too many gears. Too close together, and the big fat power curve on the turbo LS doesn't really need that. Things might improve if/when I change up the rear axle ratio (putting a Ford 8.8 in) but so far - might as well just have a 5 speed.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:01 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by culberro View Post
The "V2" engine I posted up above is a combo that routinely makes well over 450-500hp to the crank when running a carb. I'm using the GT40 intake, so it's probably in the 350-400hp range. That's with about an hour of tuning with the microsquirt ECU.

Or you can be a fancy pants and use a hi ram manifold and any of the hundreds of affordable and capable ECM solutions for a couple grand more. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO ME?
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My knob has a big chunk of steel on it
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:04 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
He doesnít need to spend a dime on a harness. The harness in his 1989 240 will do the job perfectly.
Cool thatís what I had read as well. Also, itís my understanding that going the 16v route is pointless unless you plan on building the block because an 8v will do the same job up until the same power level as the 16v. Is that true?
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:09 PM   #58
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I'm not quite understanding what your last sentence means, but a 16V head flows a lot more air than an 8V. And that makes more HP. You *can* make power on an 8V head, but you have to put a lot of money into head work and cams, and throw more boost at it.

I do think the use case of a 16V swap is getting a bit pinched, however, between BIG turbo 8V builds on one end and LS/2JZ swaps on the other. It's easier in many respects than a complete motor swap since the bottom end is still stock. But a turbo 16V, especially in a 240, needs a lot of custom parts to make it find and work.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:11 PM   #59
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You should add at least another $1k for nickel and dime expenditures. That's always where you get killed on engine swaps.
I suppose but sometimes it can go both ways, save a couple hundred on a deal here, lose a couple hundred on something unexpected there. Thatís what I threw the Misc $200-300 in for but sometimes things go sideways. I like to be optimistic and hope that it doesnít though lol. Your name sounds familiar, was your car featured on Donut media?
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:13 PM   #60
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It isn’t pointless. The 16 valve breathes so much better at any RPM than the eight valve does. The expense just goes up like a skyrocket when you decide to build one though. Stock, they make the same horsepower as the B230 FT turbo engine does running the same fuel management system.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:15 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Ceej View Post
Cool thatís what I had read as well. Also, itís my understanding that going the 16v route is pointless unless you plan on building the block because an 8v will do the same job up until the same power level as the 16v. Is that true?

What?



Keeping the same turbo and manifold, my car puts down more power with half the boost after the 16v swap, over a wider powerband. Does that make sense?


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I'm not quite understanding what your last sentence means, but a 16V head flows a lot more air than an 8V. And that makes more HP. You *can* make power on an 8V head, but you have to put a lot of money into head work and cams, and throw more boost at it.

I do think the use case of a 16V swap is getting a bit pinched, however, between BIG turbo 8V builds on one end and LS/2JZ swaps on the other. It's easier in many respects than a complete motor swap since the bottom end is still stock. But a turbo 16V, especially in a 240, needs a lot of custom parts to make it find and work.

Packaging is a bit challenging with creature comforts yes.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:16 PM   #62
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As a super rough HP/$ range, I'd say the best bet is:
stock - 300 HP - 8V
300 - 400 HP - 16V
400+ HP - something else
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:20 PM   #63
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I'm not quite understanding what your last sentence means, but a 16V head flows a lot more air than an 8V. And that makes more HP. You *can* make power on an 8V head, but you have to put a lot of money into head work and cams, and throw more boost at it.

I do think the use case of a 16V swap is getting a bit pinched, however, between BIG turbo 8V builds on one end and LS/2JZ swaps on the other. It's easier in many respects than a complete motor swap since the bottom end is still stock. But a turbo 16V, especially in a 240, needs a lot of custom parts to make it find and work.
Sorry, sometimes I donít explain my thoughts well. What I meant to say was, on a stock block it doesnít matter if I run an 8v or a 16v because the block is the limiting factor? I would just have an easier time reaching the power limit with a 16v because it flows better, rather than running a bigger turbo to compensate for the 8v poor flow.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:37 PM   #64
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Op says it's a daily driver, I love making mediocre power with a 4 banger with my DD, why the magic number of 300?

250 to the rear wheel is much fun without the expense or the headaches to reach a number you pulled out of your ass. If it's your DD dependability is your first goal power level takes a back seat.

Yeah I know, I sound like Redwood Chair aka common sense.
I’ve owned cars with 250-300hp. That amount of power in a 3200lb car is alright. It’s fast enough to not feel like a turd but slow enough to be uninspiring. I want something that’s capable of 12 second range quarters or at least low 13’s on a bad day. Around 300whp in one of these cars should be about what I’m looking for and give it a 10 to 1 hp to weight ratio.

And yes it’s a DD but I gotta have some fun with it. I have other vehicles for back up if she ****s the bed lol

Last edited by Ceej; 03-23-2020 at 06:45 PM..
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Old 03-23-2020, 07:43 PM   #65
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even with a nice fast spooling turbo (BW EFR) you were still dealing with that amount of HP until you'd kept the pedal down for that bit of lag, and then beast mode for a few seconds until you shifted. Not entirely on/off, but sort of.
Throttle response. When I ask a machine for something, I want it now, not when the machine finally gets around to it. Admittedly, my knowledge of turbos is from the 90s -- I hear they've gotten better, but my 240 intercooled was a 2-second wait. My girlfriend's nearly new Dodge Daytona Shelby was almost as leisurely to wake up, but when it finally did, wow! Not much could touch her.

The little 5.0 back in the day was exhilarating. Sure, you snicker now, when 400 HP is easy to find off the showroom floor, but the 225HP Mustang pretty much recreated the hot rod mentality after more than a decade of wimpy cars. (Not all, but most.) How wonderful that we could enjoy that without decimating our environment like with the 1960s Hemis and so on.

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Drivability is such a relative thing. What you like may not be what I like.
Exactly. I don't doubt that turbo horsepower could exceed naturally aspirated ratings by several hundred HP depending on how you build it. But for me, romping on a V8 at just about any RPM is pure joy.
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:05 PM   #66
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Having ridden in both now, LS all the way. I was getting all the parts for a 16v turbo swap and realized I would be in it much more money and have a car that might be as fast pushed to the extreme but I can now buy most of my mechanical parts locally if I need to as an LS car and it was less expensive hp to hp.
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:26 PM   #67
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Things to consider... A 300whp B230 is on borrowed time, and will be at 20ish PSI boost to make that power. A 300whp LSx is essentially stock and will run that way for years with normal maintenance.
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:31 PM   #68
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b230Ft is a cheaper option by far than a LS swap.
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:33 PM   #69
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If the B230 is properly built, I wouldn't agree that is on borrowed time, but I get your point. It will be more stressed.

After my LS build is done, I will probably start on my other 242, which will be a redblock turbo. Why decide? Have both
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:42 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by 2turbotoys View Post
If the B230 is properly built, I wouldn't agree that is on borrowed time, but I get your point. It will be more stressed.

After my LS build is done, I will probably start on my other 242, which will be a redblock turbo. Why decide? Have both
Oh how nice that would be. You must not have a wife holding the purse strings
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:45 PM   #71
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No, the money is mine lol. Plus she loves the cars.

And I send the expensive parts to the shop hahaha.
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:57 PM   #72
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You’re a lucky man! My wife has limited me to my 78 Bronco and my 245, life is tough.
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:57 PM   #73
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I just picked up my 530 head and B23 block from the machine shop, ported the exhaust, opened up around the intake valves, installed oversize valves from the group buy, new keepers, recycled RSI valve springs set the lash with my IPD turbo cam, decked and honed the block, installed new intermediate shaft bearings, new freeze plugs.
$790
Oversize valves
$368
NOS Mahle B23ET pistons
NOS RSI h-beam rods
$550
Crank scraper
$119
Bearings, Gates Kevlar t belt, Chinese T3/T4, gaskets, Volvo flame trap, etc etc
Probably another $500
Stuff to run 3/8" fuel line to eBay fuel rail,FPR fuel filter etc etc
$300
It's just bleeding money but I think it's down to a trickle, $8.89 for a can of red engine paint this afternoon.

Pics to come
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:09 PM   #74
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Things to consider... A 300whp B230 is on borrowed time, and will be at 20ish PSI boost to make that power. A 300whp LSx is essentially stock and will run that way for years with normal maintenance.
a 300whp b230 isn't on borrowed time.

I ran mine very hard and at more boost than that for years and it only blew up because of my own negligence and not caring.
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:10 PM   #75
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Also, now that johnmc mentioned it....there is a 3rd contender. You can get a 1jz vvti engine/trans takeout for pretty cheap nowadays...
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