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Old 03-07-2020, 11:43 AM   #51
Vincent Gagnon
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[...] the rally car uses a 2-piece drive shaft [...] and it's quiet.
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Old 05-11-2020, 08:36 AM   #52
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Quick update on my end. I ended up installing Ben's torque rods and they have made a noticeable difference. Not only is it easier to fine tune the pinion angle but they appear to allow for better rear axle articulation over the IPD rods I had (not to mention no more squeaking)

Noise / Vibration has been reduced if not eliminated at all speeds and gears but now I only get the coast down rumble between 2800 - 3000 RPM. The severity of the rumble has been reduced as well which has made the issue livable IMO.

I may hold off on the big ass slip yoke until next winter.
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:40 PM   #53
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Quick update on my end. I ended up installing Ben's torque rods and they have made a noticeable difference. Not only is it easier to fine tune the pinion angle but they appear to allow for better rear axle articulation over the IPD rods I had (not to mention no more squeaking)

Noise / Vibration has been reduced if not eliminated at all speeds and gears but now I only get the coast down rumble between 2800 - 3000 RPM. The severity of the rumble has been reduced as well which has made the issue livable IMO.

I may hold off on the big ass slip yoke until next winter.
I just pulled the last of the IPD bars off my car this week and put on the hybrid torque rods and a new panhard from Ben. Also did the spherical axle bearings. My dad's actually currently rolling around under the car as we are getting really really picky on driveline angles. Shimmed the t5z up on my crossmember and shimmed the center bearing down a bit to improve the operating angles.

I think I'm going to end up making my own center bearing support. I bought one from... Jao? here maybe, to run the 7/9 bushing and bearing and it was a total waste of money. It was built wrong (backwards) and has slotted mounting holes which just put the mounting bolts on the extreme end of the two slots so I can't actually adjust the thing side to side. Shouldn't be hard to make something that can actually take some adjustment.

Anyways, I'm mostly after improvements in a clunky rear end, but I'll let you guys know if I see any improvement in that 3k rpm buzz range.

Side note: seriously considering leaving my STS third engine mount off until I can put a shock/dampener in there instead. Don't think that can be helping it.
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:45 PM   #54
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I replaced the solid link with an ebay "damper" that uses a pair of plyurethane bushings and a delrin donut to aid with isolation. I have to preload it so much to keep the valve cover off the AC lines on the firewall that it may not be doing that much damping after all, but may be of some help to those of you with 8v heads.

Between that, the v6 slip yoke, and BNE torque rods, the vibrations are down and now happen in the 2100-2400 RPM range. Will test some BMW E46/E39 trans mounts and a crossmember isolation kit before tearing down and inspecting the transmission.

It could be all down to poor gear engagement by the aftermarket input shaft at this point.
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Old 05-14-2020, 12:00 PM   #55
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I replaced the solid link with an ebay "damper" that uses a pair of plyurethane bushings and a delrin donut to aid with isolation. I have to preload it so much to keep the valve cover off the AC lines on the firewall that it may not be doing that much damping after all, but may be of some help to those of you with 8v heads.

Between that, the v6 slip yoke, and BNE torque rods, the vibrations are down and now happen in the 2100-2400 RPM range. Will test some BMW E46/E39 trans mounts and a crossmember isolation kit before tearing down and inspecting the transmission.

It could be all down to poor gear engagement by the aftermarket input shaft at this point.
I was just thinking of you yesterday on this; I think you sent me your parts list but I couldn't find it. Is it still handy?

I improved my driveline angles quite a bit during my installs (transmission shimmed up, center bearing shimmed down. Transmission to bearing was over 3* previously) everything is within ~1* now.

Car is way way smoother. Between getting rid of all the poly, the spherical TABs, and rubber on the torque rods it's way way more pleasant. Clutch engagement is smoother and more forgiving (FX400 disk), and most importantly to me all of my clunking and clonking has disappeared.

I also lined every interfacing piece of plastic in the dash and center console with Tesa felt tape, and used a fist worth of butyl rope to dum up gaps and trim install points. THEN used a bunch of foam insulation strip to fill up bigger gaps. A lot of effort for a few improvements around the glovebox and steering column. For some reason my auxiliary gauge area just buzzes like crazy still. Cruising at 2500 is totally nice, 3k is like ughh this really is a ****box volvo.

I've seen a lot of people chase this around, including the guy who I bought my donor car from with the t5z and other driveline pieces. I think it's just a resonant frequency for the b230, and we're running light flywheels and stiff components that exacerbate it. Idk that there's a CURE, just ways to offset the symptoms.
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Old 05-14-2020, 12:37 PM   #56
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You should engineer some balance shafts. I'll be first in line for a set.

Flywheel: I never had a problem with the dogdish; there just aren't many streetable clutches that can hold 400 lb-ft and only measure 228mm.

As for your dash, I used a ton of foil backed MLV and .75" thick vinyl foam from seat mounts to base of windshield and lined the underside of the dash with more butyl and thin foam. Thankfully my use of butyl tape was limited to 2 rolls :rolleyes:

As for the "damper", it's one of these. I welded on some extra tubing and tapped it to fit 7/16" rod ends to work with the STS brackets. Forgive the flux core ugliness. Not pictured is the left side of the arrangement. The rod has a "plunger", which is basically a washer fastened to the rod and is holding another donut captive against the end of the cylinder. The right rod end is threaded directly into the cylinder cap. It's a shock absorber that uses bushings instead of fluid, basically:








My plan is to eventually weld a motor mount bracket on a spare crossmember, on the passenger side as close to the frame rail as I can get away with. This should allow for a lot more mechanical advantage against the motor torquing over and negate the need for a heavily preloaded tension rod on the drivers side. With some luck I should be able to get away with using a hydraulic motor mount.

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Old 09-30-2020, 07:53 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Tfrasca View Post
It's actually not as bad as that pic makes it look. The damper piece goes around the tail shaft housing of the transmission, so driveshaft length isn't affected very much.
If you had to guess what would you define as the length isn't changed by much? 1/4" longer?

Before I tear into this I want to know if I need to shorten my DS.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:17 PM   #58
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Curious: what flywheels are y'all running? Something tells me that those with 230's and dog dishes are seeing way less of this nonsense.
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Old 10-01-2020, 04:25 AM   #59
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Curious: what flywheels are y'all running? Something tells me that those with 230's and dog dishes are seeing way less of this nonsense.
I am using Josh's billet flywheel. When I am idling I get what Paul is describing in this video.

At t = 12:15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UmrCl2nLKM&t=811s
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Old 10-01-2020, 11:59 AM   #60
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Weird. I don't get that at all. How fast is your idle set?
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Old 10-01-2020, 12:10 PM   #61
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Weird. I don't get that at all. How fast is your idle set?
Around 900 RPM I think. It does disappear when I blip the throttle at idle.
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Old 10-01-2020, 12:10 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Harlard View Post
As for the "damper", it's one of these. I welded on some extra tubing and tapped it to fit 7/16" rod ends to work with the STS brackets. Forgive the flux core ugliness. Not pictured is the left side of the arrangement. The rod has a "plunger", which is basically a washer fastened to the rod and is holding another donut captive against the end of the cylinder. The right rod end is threaded directly into the cylinder cap. It's a shock absorber that uses bushings instead of fluid, basically:
How well does that thing actually work at absorbing vibration? I have the same sts brackets and I ordered one of these but apparently they can't be shipped to the US.

Months ago I ripped out the torque rod and put in an extra large driver's side mount, which has been holding up fine. I don't get any driveline vibrations ever while cruising down the road, but on takeoff from a stop (under 5mph or so) everything shudders and rattles.
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:34 PM   #63
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I'm running a lightened flat flywheel at 17lbs I believe.

On my bench is another T5, need to tear it down, install the billet countershaft retainer and Fox body input, then see if it rattles in the same install setup as the one in the car. I seriously wonder if there's some flex in the stock countershaft retainer, allowing for some of this rattle.
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Old 10-02-2020, 04:39 AM   #64
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I'm running a lightened flat flywheel at 17lbs I believe.

On my bench is another T5, need to tear it down, install the billet countershaft retainer and Fox body input, then see if it rattles in the same install setup as the one in the car. I seriously wonder if there's some flex in the stock countershaft retainer, allowing for some of this rattle.
I installed Paul's billet counter shaft retainer on mine. When I had everything apart there was countershaft end play (My T5 was bought new!).

I was dam certain that this is where the rattling came from!

When I shimmed it I took out the end play and set a preload which resulted in the counter shaft having about 4 inlbs of drag.

Also my t5 has the conical bearing on the input shaft not the roller bearings on that can fall out when you remove the input shaft.

After all of this there was no discernable difference in NVH.
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:33 AM   #65
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go way back in TB time and look for posts by odinthewanderer regarding this issue, he was fighting it back in 2010. He had a very well thought out car with a brand new $2500 hopped up t5z from modern driveline. He went through and through and through that transmission chasing the rattle, I think ultimately he reached the conclusion that this is life with a lightened up buzzy b230.

It bugged him enough I bought that car, and I moved his entire drivetrain into my car which probably make 300hp more than his did. It's still going strong. I fixed a lot of my own vibrations with rear end changes, but sure there's still some decel noise. It really doesn't bother me, and I feel like I'm in a shrinking club of people who really enjoy their t5. Now my engine mount NVH, that does bug me.

Just offering this because a) it's certainly not a new revelation and there's been some pretty detailed discussion in the past b) I've seen smart and talented people try and fail to un-**** box their volvo and get pretty frustrated by it c) cars can be a lot more fun if you're able to broaden your range of acceptance of their inherent shortcomings.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:12 AM   #66
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Well, thanks for ruining my pipedream of getting rid of that noise. lol
Seriously though, good to know that wasn't it.

Having ridden in Ryan's 242, with a T5, that is nearly silent, I know it can be done, which makes it that much worse. I know Tyler bought a brand new T5z which was just as loud as his previous one as well though, so I don't know what to think. Given mine's on a B20, it's definitely not engine related either. I did also have a tiny bit of the noise between drive and coast on the Celica trans, but this T5, it sounds like it's going to grenade every time I decel.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:18 AM   #67
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This makes me want to go AW71 with my mild 250-300hp goal rather than spending a bunch of money on a noisy T5 or CD009 setup. I had a Getrag 265 in my 242 turbo and it had terrible decel noise too.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:48 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Stiggy Pop View Post
go way back in TB time and look for posts by odinthewanderer regarding this issue, he was fighting it back in 2010. He had a very well thought out car with a brand new $2500 hopped up t5z from modern driveline. He went through and through and through that transmission chasing the rattle, I think ultimately he reached the conclusion that this is life with a lightened up buzzy b230.

It bugged him enough I bought that car, and I moved his entire drivetrain into my car which probably make 300hp more than his did. It's still going strong. I fixed a lot of my own vibrations with rear end changes, but sure there's still some decel noise. It really doesn't bother me, and I feel like I'm in a shrinking club of people who really enjoy their t5. Now my engine mount NVH, that does bug me.

Just offering this because a) it's certainly not a new revelation and there's been some pretty detailed discussion in the past b) I've seen smart and talented people try and fail to un-**** box their volvo and get pretty frustrated by it c) cars can be a lot more fun if you're able to broaden your range of acceptance of their inherent shortcomings.
I have time this winter to swap in and modify the trans tunnel for the big EffN slip yoke. After that I am calling it quits! . . . . . maybe.

As for enjoying it I can tell you without I doubt I enjoy the rawness of driving my 242.

I just bought a new 2019 golf R and that thing is out of the box superior to this car in almost every way.

But the driving experience of my 242 is so much more visceral. It may be raw, noisy with rattles and buzzing decel but the feel is more connecting.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:55 AM   #69
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If you really desire to limit vibrations, I got a few recommendations with a t5

Use a stock dog dish wheel,
Use a dampened heavy slip yoke,
Make sure you have a two piece Drive shaft.

all of those will help.
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Old 10-02-2020, 04:48 PM   #70
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I've got the damned driveline, definitely helped a little, but the damned yoke made a bigger difference. Have you found a yoke with a bigger damper than the V6 yoke? The I4 is the wrong size but it's got a good sized balancer on it.
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