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Old 05-05-2018, 03:33 PM   #51
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Being that I just had to stuff a yoshifab in my 945 engine bay I struggle to think of a good spot to fit the Mann unit and still have it drain to the block. Our engine bays might be big but everything is a tight fit.

Either way yoshifab on two cars here but I will get some pics up of the Mann unit I am going to help install on a locals car.

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Old 05-05-2018, 08:09 PM   #52
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I was having the same thought. Don't think the Yoshi setup will even fit where you have it there on a 240, there's not that much room between the intake and the master cylinder.

As far as the provent, I was thinking over between the intake pipe and the abs pump. My (possibly bad) plan is to get one in hand and then try to show horn it somewhere. Would definitely appreciate to see how you fit it into whatever car you end up putting it in.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:41 AM   #53
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I'm picking out crankcase ventilation parts, so I figured I'd bump this old thread about the Provent. It looks really nice, and several of you have run one. My issue with it is that it only has one port in and one out. Has that been an issue for anyone? I was planning on venting the crankcase at the stock breather box location, the valve cover, and maybe the fuel pump cover. But it seems counterproductive to have those three vent hoses merge into one for the Provent. Any thoughts?
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Old 06-03-2020, 07:55 AM   #54
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Being in the higher rev end often, in drift events, I too was looking to help the stock PCV.
Ended up putting another cheapo catch can between the stock PCV and the intake.
Problem solved. Works great.
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:09 AM   #55
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The best thing for PCV on a redblock, it so actually have Positive Crankcase Ventilation. Stock they do not, which is why they have issues.
You want an air vent intake in the valve cover or oil cap, and the suction to be from the top of the breather box. Then to catch can. Then vacuum check valve to intake and then one to either in front of the turbo or to atmosphere.

The entire idea is to have a steady and somewhat metered flow of air going through the engine to remove oil mist and give the excess pressure somewhere to go.
Look at the plumbing diagram for turbo Japanese cars. They do it right.
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:17 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
The best thing for PCV on a redblock, it so actually have Positive Crankcase Ventilation. Stock they do not, which is why they have issues.
You want an air vent intake in the valve cover or oil cap, and the suction to be from the top of the breather box. Then to catch can. Then vacuum check valve to intake and then one to either in front of the turbo or to atmosphere.

The entire idea is to have a steady and somewhat metered flow of air going through the engine to remove oil mist and give the excess pressure somewhere to go.
Look at the plumbing diagram for turbo Japanese cars. They do it right.
I've thought about this as well. Volvo couldn't do it stock because they use a MAF, right? The pre-turbo vacuum line would be pulling in unmetered air through the air vent in the valve cover. At least I assume that's why they did it that way. But going with a speed density ECU, I'll be able to do that without worrying about it.

I'll look at some actual PCV systems and model mine after those. With a clean air vent, would you not be concerned with adding more ports than the single stock breather box one?
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:40 AM   #57
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I just bought a little Ford EVAP pump to actually try and pull air through. Might set it up on a trigger so it only kicks on over 5lbs of boost or something... will have to play around with it.
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Old 06-03-2020, 12:33 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tfrasca View Post
I've thought about this as well. Volvo couldn't do it stock because they use a MAF, right? The pre-turbo vacuum line would be pulling in unmetered air through the air vent in the valve cover. At least I assume that's why they did it that way. But going with a speed density ECU, I'll be able to do that without worrying about it.

I'll look at some actual PCV systems and model mine after those. With a clean air vent, would you not be concerned with adding more ports than the single stock breather box one?
It all works out if the the PCV lines are after the MAF. Some of the Japanese turbo cars were MAF as well.
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Old 06-03-2020, 01:13 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
It all works out if the the PCV lines are after the MAF. Some of the Japanese turbo cars were MAF as well.
Ah, I get it now. The fresh air vent on the valve cover is just connected to the pre-turbo tube. I was thinking it had to be open to the atmosphere. So in cruising and high vacuum situations, it's pulling air from the pre-turbo tube, through the crankcase, into the intake manifold. Then under boost, the check valve shuts off the intake manifold from the crank case and the pre-turbo line draws the crankcase pressure out, but at that point there's no fresh air being introduced into the crankcase?
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Old 06-03-2020, 01:13 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiggy Pop View Post
I just bought a little Ford EVAP pump to actually try and pull air through. Might set it up on a trigger so it only kicks on over 5lbs of boost or something... will have to play around with it.
Keep me posted.
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Old 06-05-2020, 06:24 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
It all works out if the the PCV lines are after the MAF. Some of the Japanese turbo cars were MAF as well.
Any suggestions for a PCV er, valve to use?
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Old 06-05-2020, 12:20 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crogthomas View Post
Any suggestions for a PCV er, valve to use?
I just used a random one from the auto parts store, maybe a ford one? McMaster Carr has a bunch of low pressure check valves that would work as well. Silicone Intakes has some that are 12mm hose size as well as a few AN sizes if you want to get fancy.

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/liqui...an-p-9586.html

On the NA race engine, I drilled the underside of the oil filler cap with a ~3/16 or 1/4” hole. I also stuffed some foam filter media into the cap (they pop apart) to filter the air going in.
Then a hose from the breather box to PCV to catch can (stuffed with steel wool), and then to the intake manifold. This allowed for a constant flow of fresh filtered air to go from the valve cover down to the crank case, and out the stock breather box. Idle was adjusted for the added leak rate from the cap.

A well working stock turbo “PCV” system works okay, but it all needs to be clean and functioning properly. Also, the small vacuum/boost “t” just above the breather box needs to be clean and in good working order. Also, the breather hose pre-turbo in important at it supplies a vacuum (bernoulli effect).

Last edited by culberro; 06-05-2020 at 12:28 PM..
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Old 06-05-2020, 01:01 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
I just used a random one from the auto parts store, maybe a ford one? McMaster Carr has a bunch of low pressure check valves that would work as well. Silicone Intakes has some that are 12mm hose size as well as a few AN sizes if you want to get fancy.

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/liqui...an-p-9586.html

On the NA race engine, I drilled the underside of the oil filler cap with a ~3/16 or 1/4 hole. I also stuffed some foam filter media into the cap (they pop apart) to filter the air going in.
Then a hose from the breather box to PCV to catch can (stuffed with steel wool), and then to the intake manifold. This allowed for a constant flow of fresh filtered air to go from the valve cover down to the crank case, and out the stock breather box. Idle was adjusted for the added leak rate from the cap.

A well working stock turbo PCV system works okay, but it all needs to be clean and functioning properly. Also, the small vacuum/boost t just above the breather box needs to be clean and in good working order. Also, the breather hose pre-turbo in important at it supplies a vacuum (bernoulli effect).
I know it's only one datapoint, but my freshly rebuilt B23 with the stock breather box, then a Yoshifab catch can + stock box had blowby problems. Probably due to excess ring gap or something I messed up, but still, I really want to eliminate it. I don't think the stock setup is going to cut it on a high rpm, high boost 16v. That's why I want to add more venting in the block and valve cover.
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Old 06-05-2020, 02:13 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
I just used a random one from the auto parts store,
Thanks. I'm planing to use draw air via the pre-Turbo hose. This way any air going into the system has already been counted via the MAF. Also, when under boost and there being no inlet vacuum, the air inlet will act as a breather back out. The PCV would between the valve cover and inlet.
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Old 06-06-2020, 05:40 AM   #65
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I have this one:
http://www.radiumauto.com/Universal-...OS-R-P890.aspx
my understanding was that you don't want any excess crankcase pressure, it causes excess stress on the block and rings. The high horsepower cars usually use additional vacuum pumps to reduce crankcase pressure at high RPM
https://www.gzmotorsports.com/vacuum-pump-guide.html
https://www.dragzine.com/tech-storie...up-horsepower/

The Radium catch can is nice because it's heated to prevent water condensation in the can mixing with the oil that's draining back into your sump pan. The cheap ones don't have this heating element, which is why they fill up with sludge much faster.
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Old 06-06-2020, 04:13 PM   #66
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^ Maybe you could save a few bucks by mounting a cheaper one above the exhaust.
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Old 06-08-2020, 08:02 AM   #67
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Here's a good breakdown of crankcase vent theory I found on a SR20 forum...can be applied to redblocks as well.
https://www.sr20-forum.com/informati...d-edition.html
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Old 06-08-2020, 09:10 AM   #68
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Over the winter I played with a handful of PCV valves in a line running from the oil separator box to the intake without success (car ran poorly). On my old Chevy V8 there was a PCV "intake" on one valve cover and an "exhaust" on the other that was plumbed to manifold vacuum. On the Volvo I was concerned about the boost pressuring the crank, but figured the (back fire / PCV) valve would prevent it. I believe, at the oil separator, that the early turbo cars had the larger hose running to the turbo inlet and the smaller to a metered orifice manifold vacuum? I think this "dual" set up would, more or less, present vacuum to the PCV whether on vacuum or on boost.

I think it's a worthwhile effort, I just could not figure it out.
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Old 06-08-2020, 01:13 PM   #69
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I have an eBay catch can that I've been using for a few years, previously just vented from the valve cover only on a B21. I now have a B23 with the black plastic flame trap on the block, which I will run to catch can and I bought a vented oil cap which will go to the catch can. The catch can will be connected to a factory 940 intake hose with the heated hose barb after the air filter and before the turbo. I haven't had a chance to run this yet and I don't even know if the oil cap will fit under the hood but I will update once the motor is back in the car.
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Old 06-14-2020, 11:28 AM   #70
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Quote:
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You might want to have a chat with every engine manufacturer out there. The stock oil separator drains back to the crankcase. The provent is just doing a better job of separating the oil from the blowby gases. There's no functional reason not to drain it back. You should be getting your oil up to temp so the water vapor and other volatiles will evaporate.

Your oil stays cleaner longer if your not returning the **** you filtered to the sump. Factory returns to sump because they know no ones going to drain the catch can. But we will. Personally I wont drain it back to the sump. But as a cnc machinist, a similar thing goes on with my cnc machines. They make oil vapors from coolant and its collected in mist collectors, the factory returns that **** to the sump but its disgusting and no coolant manufacturer recommends that. Theres no combustion taking place in my CNCs either so their waste oil is even cleaner than a cars engine oil.

Basically this argument is everywhere, return to sump for simplicity if you dont give a ****, drain it yourself if you do.
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Old 06-14-2020, 11:40 AM   #71
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Your oil stays cleaner longer if your not returning the **** you filtered to the sump. Factory returns to sump because they know no ones going to drain the catch can. But we will. Personally I wont drain it back to the sump. But as a cnc machinist, a similar thing goes on with my cnc machines. They make oil vapors from coolant and its collected in mist collectors, the factory returns that **** to the sump but its disgusting and no coolant manufacturer recommends that. Theres no combustion taking place in my CNCs either so their waste oil is even cleaner than a cars engine oil.

Basically this argument is everywhere, return to sump for simplicity if you dont give a ****, drain it yourself if you do.
Really depends on what you're doing. Higher than stock rpm, high hp you will be pushing so much oil through the CC, you really, really need to drain it back, and as Homer already pointed out, condensate & vapor leave at normal operating temp. If your car is occasional use, low miles, where the condensate won't burn off consistently, then what you're saying makes sense, otherwise, not so much.

Can't say comparing to CNC setup is a valid argument - in that case it would make sense if the system doesn't generate the heat to remove the vapors..
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Old 06-20-2020, 03:43 AM   #72
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The key point is to learn from the OEMs, Volvo redblocks have it right, no idea about white ones, SR20 have it fairly right. What's right you say? Hot. IE, in close contact with the block/head so as to drive water out of the separator, then you're just draining oil back and it's a non issue. Putting these catch cans in various places around the engine bay is only okay if you have your ducks in a row with respect to keeping the oil from getting there in any quantity in the first place. Many engines when held at 7000+ RPM will flood the head and drain the sump, which can be bad for the bottom end, too, but can also overflow bulk oil out of your breather setup if you've designed it poorly. Factory Volvo redblock breather box is pretty decent flowing, too, easily enough for mild turbo setups, but would probably be borderline on a more serious engine north of say 500hp.
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Old 06-25-2020, 06:01 PM   #73
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it sounds like running a catch can between the oil separator and the intake (pre-turbo) only helps prevent oil getting into the turbo/intercooler/throttle body/intake downstream.

whereas an ideal setup would be having a 4-port catch that runs from oil separator, drains back into the block, is vented at the valve cover/oil cap, and is vacuumed by the intake. basically - like the yoshi deluxe setup.
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Old 06-25-2020, 08:37 PM   #74
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Ones I made with a much larger volume. Original separator box still in place. Top pic is an 88 245. Bottom is a 93 945T. Work quite well.
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Old 09-29-2020, 05:32 PM   #75
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is there any risk or issue locating a catch can near the exhaust/turbo on these cars? or would it be better to plumb longer lines and locate it near the evap can?
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