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Old 01-23-2020, 09:57 PM   #1
2turbotoys
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Default LS drive by wire throttle body upgrade, anyone know anything?

I got a different intake manifold (so I can shut my hood) that uses a 4 bolt throttle body, up to 105mm. The ecu and wiring are set up for drive by wire. I can't reuse my current 78mm throttle body without an adapter, and why not get a bigger one...

My question is do they all need ecu tuning? A bunch of the ones I looked at say they need tuning, but some do not say that.

The manifold is a Holley Lo-Ram.
https://www.holley.com/products/inta.../parts/300-621
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:39 PM   #2
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I forget the exact thread but I remember reading about throttle tip in changes. Such as on the Porsche 944 when people were going to larger throttle bodies and a different throttle spool. So I would err to the side of ecu tuning because you are going to want the ecu to react to a different size throttle plate and airflow velocity.
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Old 01-23-2020, 10:54 PM   #3
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I loved it when I changed my Porsche 944 to a round throttle cam! That was a brilliant mod, felt so much faster even though no power was added. It didn't need any tuning though. I made an adapter for my B230FT to fit a 960 3" throttle body, also loved that and didn't need any tuning.

The problem with the tuning is I don't know anyone proficient in HP Tuner in my area. I agree it would be ideal, especially because the huge differences between the truck manifold and the Lo-Ram, just hoping to get it going without that. There are a few threads I have read about the Nick Williams ones, the car needs tuning right away, and by someone who is familiar with programming throttle body info.
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Old 01-24-2020, 12:16 AM   #4
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yeah be careful with throttle body stuff, you don't want to **** that up.
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Old 01-24-2020, 12:24 AM   #5
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Well the threads I have read about ones like the Nick Williams tbs, it doesn't close when you let off the throttle (super uncool), surges and hunts for idle, etc..
Stuff that makes the car undrivable and dangerous.

Are you saying I am over thinking this? Not sure what you mean. I know it's an LS noob question, but I can't find the answer.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:13 AM   #6
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Are you going manual or automatic transmission? I've found every manual transmission with throttle by wire car or truck I've driven to be unsatisfying.
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Old 01-24-2020, 10:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2turbotoys View Post
Well the threads I have read about ones like the Nick Williams tbs, it doesn't close when you let off the throttle (super uncool), surges and hunts for idle, etc..
Stuff that makes the car undrivable and dangerous.

Are you saying I am over thinking this? Not sure what you mean. I know it's an LS noob question, but I can't find the answer.
no I'm saying be careful with that ****.

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Are you going manual or automatic transmission? I've found every manual transmission with throttle by wire car or truck I've driven to be unsatisfying.
the R is fine. some vehicles are torque limited in lower gears/speeds and that could make things feel a bit off though.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:32 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
no I'm saying be careful with that ****.



the R is fine. some vehicles are torque limited in lower gears/speeds and that could make things feel a bit off though.
I find it mostly in the higher gears, you mash the gas and meh instead of hearing the motor start working, I'm sure it's better for engine longevity and emissions. In an automatic it just downshifts and you go.
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Old 01-24-2020, 01:21 PM   #9
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The drive by wire vagueness is true in many cars, but not all. I blame Toyota and the "unintended acceleration" bs that went down.

I drove a friends Mini that had some doohickey throttle tuner on it, it was on par with a cable throttle. Before the doohickey, you could stab the throttle to 100% and the engine wouldn't even blip the revs...

If you're tuning the DBW throttle, you can set it up to have whatever profile you want. So you can command %throttle to be equal to %torque from the engine (takes some tuning to do this). Makes for a car that's easier to drive at the limits.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:04 PM   #10
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Thanks guys, so I made a couple calls today to learn more about this, one to Texas Speed. Tuning is required to correct AFR's, but is also required on certain models to get proper behavior from the stepper motor. The Nick William bodies are the only one that I found that needed that. Of course as you guys said above, they can all be tuned to respond better.
Another thing that was pointed out to me is to avoid cheap ones at all costs. OEM GM are the best, followed by known brands.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:31 PM   #11
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Do you want the stock one I took off my LH8? From a 140K mile motor. $10 plus cost of a flat rate box?
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:35 PM   #12
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Yes, PM incoming
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Old 01-25-2020, 08:34 PM   #13
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Reach out to Mr. Yount. His LS3 Vette engine swap is driven by wire.
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Old 01-25-2020, 08:46 PM   #14
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Ok, thanks!
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:55 PM   #15
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Not knowing what size motor you have... I would go Camaro LS3 which should be 4 bolt and factory.

The TSBs claim the TPS must be re-calibrated to the car, but in my experience that is not needed as the ECU will re-calibrate itself when hunting for idle parameters. (literally did this yesterday w/o an issue, take 5 minutes to auto relearn.)

For the intake why not an LS6 that would work with your 3 bolt TB? That Holley is crazy expensive!

Also if getting used TB please replace the TPS as a preventative measure. $35 on Amazon for German OEM Delco. When it breaks on a trip you are in limp mode which is BS.
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Old 01-26-2020, 08:58 PM   #16
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I have a 5.3L L33. That's funny, that is exactly the throttle body the engine builder recommended.

An LS6 manifold is a pain to adapt to the L33, requires a bunch of fiddling/bracket making/etc that I don't feel like doing, plus I already bought the Holley. Plus my 3 bolt TB has a corner broken off the plastic cover and was spraypainted silver at some point, overspray all over the plastic. It took a hard hit at some point and I don't trust it. Certainly not water proof anymore.

Interesting about the TPS, is it under the cover with the motor? I haven't seen one on it, but I never dismantled the TB. I will gladly do preventive maintenance.
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Old 01-26-2020, 10:35 PM   #17
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The ls6 bolts right on with a relocated idler that's like 15 bucks. Also, gotta make sure you have one that matches the ECU if it's a stock one. Wiring is different between certain tbs and pedals
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Old 01-26-2020, 10:38 PM   #18
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Good to know about the wiring, I'll take a closer look at it.
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:16 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2turbotoys View Post
I have a 5.3L L33. That's funny, that is exactly the throttle body the engine builder recommended.

An LS6 manifold is a pain to adapt to the L33, requires a bunch of fiddling/bracket making/etc that I don't feel like doing, plus I already bought the Holley. Plus my 3 bolt TB has a corner broken off the plastic cover and was spraypainted silver at some point, overspray all over the plastic. It took a hard hit at some point and I don't trust it. Certainly not water proof anymore.

Interesting about the TPS, is it under the cover with the motor? I haven't seen one on it, but I never dismantled the TB. I will gladly do preventive maintenance.
what are you talking about? L33 is a cath port engine, same as an ls6. bolts right up. I'm running an ls1 intake on mine.
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Old 01-27-2020, 03:08 PM   #20
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TPS replacement process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5JFju6Y694

FWIW I have a 05 Avalanche 5.3 TB and 10 Escalade 6.2 TB and the TPS is the same. But yes, watch for any wiring differences. I have no use for the 05 TB, if you can use it send a PM.

TPS Sensor: https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-19259...s%2C151&sr=8-4

Nothing special about a L33 vs LM7 for setup.

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The Vortec 5300 L33 (VIN code "B") is an aluminum block version of the LM7, known as the Vortec 5300 HO in marketing materials. The L33 uses flat top pistons from the 4.8L instead of standard dished pistons from the LM7. It also uses 799 cylinder heads, which are identical to 243 castings found on LS6s and LS2s, lacking only the Corvette spec valve springs and hollow stem exhaust valves on the 2002-2004 LS6. This combination increased the compression from 9.5:1 to 10.0:1. The L33 also had a specific camshaft not shared with any other engine, specs @ .050 duration are: 193 duration, .482 lift, 116 LSA. As a result, power increased by 15 hp (11 kW), to 310 hp (230 kW) and 335 lb·ft (441 N·m). It was only available on extended cab 4WD pickup trucks. Only 25% of trucks made in 2005 had the L33 engine.
I agree with Linuxman, return that expensive Holley and stick with a LS6 intake manifold that matches cathedral port heads. Keep it simple.
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
what are you talking about? L33 is a cath port engine, same as an ls6. bolts right up. I'm running an ls1 intake on mine.
I is confused as well. Other then the idler relocation it should bolt right up if using truck accessories
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Old 01-27-2020, 09:18 PM   #22
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I believe you guys, I just read that install thread and figured, screw that. Obviously that information was misleading at best.

Also, I can't use the truck accessories because the alternator was as tall as the intake.



Pretty sure they won't let me return it at this point.

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Old 01-28-2020, 01:54 AM   #23
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Just use a Camaro alternator
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Old 01-28-2020, 11:50 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosbySweater View Post
Just use a Camaro alternator
THIS! And yes it is a PITA. Also factor in the PS pump location if running one. Yes, you will also need to buy a Camaro Alt to match the low mount.

I used ICT Billet relocation kit. There are plenty of other solutions as well, see which fits your needs.

Dont forget a water pump as well. Choose your poison here as well as different options exist.

Put an LS in a Volvo and make wicked skids... It will be easy they said... Yeah, maybe not so much.

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Old 01-28-2020, 11:53 AM   #25
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Just hit it with your purse.
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