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Old 05-25-2020, 10:14 PM   #1
VB242
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Default Coolant in oil, fresh build

So I'm pretty disgustilated, I had my freshly rebuilt B23 with 530 head all the way installed when I filled it up with water, which kept mysteriously disappearing. Turns out out was all in the oil pan. Is this block just forked or did the machinist or I make some kind of error? I used an Elring HG with ARP studs. I'm going to pull it back out and see what there is to see I reckon, I wasted my whole weekend putting it together.
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:30 PM   #2
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I finally bought my own coolant pressure tester; this is the tool for the job.

Pump it up and then you could stuff $10 cellphone borescope down the plug hole to see which cyl is leaking.
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:42 PM   #3
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turbo crha rotated 90deg?
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:31 AM   #4
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turbo crha rotated 90deg?
Oil cooled turbo, I bypassed the oil/water cooler too. ZVOLV it doesn't need pressure to leak through, when I fill the coolant bottle you can watch it run out if the drain plug. Worst case I have a B21 block sitting I'll see what a 4mm bigger hole is going to look like or see if Wiseco will sell me 2 RSI pistons to make up the set from the old blowed up B21. It's just so frustrating I want to spit when I think of redblocks right now
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:50 AM   #5
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Is the head gasket on upside down?
Got to be a big mismatch for water to be leaking out like that.
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Old 05-26-2020, 06:21 AM   #6
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Is the head gasket on upside down?
Got to be a big mismatch for water to be leaking out like that.
Tim
I have done that before I don't think so this time.
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Old 05-26-2020, 07:31 AM   #7
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Does it leak as soon as you start filling it up or when it reaches like the head level? Could the head be jacked up on the water pump?But since this is not your first rodeo I guess that you don't install the wp before torquing the head...
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Old 05-26-2020, 09:27 AM   #8
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You mentioned machinist. What did they do to it? Take the oil pan off and see where it's coming from

(Pinhole in a bore)
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Old 05-26-2020, 10:05 AM   #9
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Does it leak as soon as you start filling it up or when it reaches like the head level? Could the head be jacked up on the water pump?But since this is not your first rodeo I guess that you don't install the wp before torquing the head...
I will check this, i had the head installed then removed it to have bronze guides installed, I just stuck it back on with the water pump in the same position I rebuilt it because i was having coolant issues before, I thought it was the Cometic not sealing, but maybe it's just a bad block.
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Old 05-26-2020, 10:30 AM   #10
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I did something pretty similar. I ran out of fuel pump on the first 16V build, and had detonated the pistons half to death (ent top ring lands, broken rings). And when it finally started really blowing coolant I figured it jsut blew the HG. And when I took it apart, some very minor signs of HG leakage.

So I rebuilt the whole thing, new pistons, new bearings, etc, etc. Slapped it all together again after a couple of months of work and... massive steam cloud out the tailpipe. Long sad story made shorter - I'd missed a split in one of the bores. I got to do all that work again, starting over with another junkyard shortblock.

I don't think there's any way a water pump can leak into the crankcase.
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Old 05-26-2020, 10:47 AM   #11
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I did something pretty similar. I ran out of fuel pump on the first 16V build, and had detonated the pistons half to death (ent top ring lands, broken rings). And when it finally started really blowing coolant I figured it jsut blew the HG. And when I took it apart, some very minor signs of HG leakage.

So I rebuilt the whole thing, new pistons, new bearings, etc, etc. Slapped it all together again after a couple of months of work and... massive steam cloud out the tailpipe. Long sad story made shorter - I'd missed a split in one of the bores. I got to do all that work again, starting over with another junkyard shortblock.

I don't think there's any way a water pump can leak into the crankcase.
I think he means the water pump is adjusted too high holding the head up off the hg. I just looked with a borescope,I forgot I had it, there's water in all the cylinders, making me think I screwed up the HG somehow. The head didn't want to sit down on the spacers that go around the head bolts on the right side, I tapped it down with a plastic hammer before I torqued it down. I mangled them a little getting them out before the the machine work, maybe they're causing the problem?

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Old 05-26-2020, 10:57 AM   #12
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Also I did crank it before I figured out what was going on, I was trying to prime the oil system, in retrospect one cylinder acted like it was hydrolocked. Regardless the head is going to have to come off at least I think.
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Old 05-26-2020, 11:35 AM   #13
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That makes sense on the WP, if you went to a much thinner HG.

But it sounds like you're onto something there with the alignment tubes/dowels/whatever they're called.
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Old 05-26-2020, 11:45 AM   #14
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That makes sense on the WP, if you went to a much thinner HG.

But it sounds like you're onto something there with the alignment tubes/dowels/whatever they're called.
the dowel tubes is a good idea
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Old 05-26-2020, 08:13 PM   #15
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I will check this, i had the head installed then removed it to have bronze guides installed, I just stuck it back on with the water pump in the same position I rebuilt it because i was having coolant issues before, I thought it was the Cometic not sealing, but maybe it's just a bad block.
This wouldn't be the first cometic not sealing properly. I've seen coolant in oil 3 or 4 times on different builds with these gaskets. A little bit of Right Stuff on the gasket around the coolant holes before torquing the head usually cures this. But coolant in all the bores is weird though.
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Old 05-26-2020, 08:25 PM   #16
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Got nothing to offer that hasn't been said, but rooting for ya to straighten it out. I used to use Hylomar spray on head gaskets just in case of a small manufacturing defect or imperfection but haven't done that for a while since it is not that easy to get anymore.
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:31 PM   #17
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So a little more information, it only leaks by when 1&4 are down. The machinist wants me to pull the oil pan and see where it's coming from, so I'll just pull the whole works back out this weekend and dump some water in it on the stand. I don't feel like pulling the cross member and I think it's going to have to come apart anyway. Has anyone punched a B21 out to 96mm? There seems to be enough meat there to do it and I have one sitting.
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:39 PM   #18
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Well, piston dependent leaking is indeed a very bad sign. Can't see it really being anything but a split cylinder bore.

I'd whip the head off quickly and see what's up. And just be prepared to pull the bottom end out as well.
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Old 05-27-2020, 07:21 PM   #19
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Here's the head before installation, it's not missing any plugs is it?

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Old 05-27-2020, 07:53 PM   #20
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^^^ sorry, looks fine (with only the one plug on front end). Just to cover the bases, where is your turbo oil feed line connected? Any chance it got moved from an oil galley hole to a coolant hole?
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:00 PM   #21
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^^^ sorry, looks fine (with only the one plug on front end). Just to cover the bases, where is your turbo oil feed line connected? Any chance it got moved from an oil galley hole to a coolant hole?
No it runs off the oil pressure switch hole.
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Old 05-30-2020, 08:38 PM   #22
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So it was operator error installing freeze plug retainers, the bore is super thin at the bottom, core shift I guess. I punched a ~9/64" hole through the cylinder wall near the bottom of #3. I marked a line at the top of the piston at bottom dead center, the hole is a little over 14mm below that line which puts it in between the top ring and the the second ring at BDC. I have a whole welding dept at my disposal, should I have them zap it shut? They have high nickel and also steel rods. What about JB weld? There shouldn't be much cylinder pressure at the bottom of the stroke and I guess 12-16psi water pressure on the other side, depending on the pressure cap.. I got on the phone and forgot to take a picture. It's on the left side of the cylinder. I'm going back tomorrow to knock out the rest of the pistons and remove the crank and the rest of the stuff attached to the block. Unless I decide to JB weld, then I could start putting it back together. It's tempting, what do you guys think? It's going to see the oil ring and second ring sliding by twice every combustion cycle.
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:01 PM   #23
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Sleeve it if possible.
Even if you chance welding it, it will need to be bored/honed.

Maybe we can look around and find a block.
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:51 PM   #24
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Is the hole below the bottom of the ring travel?

Maybe fix it like the britten 1000 guys did? Braze the hole up.
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Old 05-30-2020, 11:34 PM   #25
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Is the hole below the bottom of the ring travel?

Maybe fix it like the britten 1000 guys did? Braze the hole up.
It's below the top ring not not the other 2 brazing might be the answer though
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