• Hello Guest, welcome to the initial stages of our new platform!
    You can find some additional information about where we are in the process of migrating the board and setting up our new software here

    Thank you for being a part of our community!

760 5 cylinder...scratching a 10 year itch

Vf84ZpXl.jpg

Found some 5" outer diameter moog coils (Moog 8088) that were new in box for $10 locally. We'll run them and see. I think they're 260lb/in which should play well with the motion ratio or the rear arm which looks to be about .73. They're 15" long so will need cut though.

Sneaky hiding of some information I've been looking for for a while!
 
Ah the old 5 cylinder sitting around waiting to be but to use scenario, been there! The plan is to use motronic 4.4 and see what Aaron at Vast can do tuning-wise.
Glad to hear some of the info from the thread is getting put to use!

Interesting fact from today, the 960 engine mounts/5cyl ends up about 0.6" (my rough measurement with calipers) forward of where my B234 sat. Had to modify my trans mount that I had made for the old 940/T5 setup so it would bolt up.
It's feeling very close to ready to start. Need to finish plumbing the intercooler, a couple of turbo cooling hoses, and finish welding the downpipe, and then I think I can start it!
 
I noticed that the whiteblock sits slightly further forward in the chassis compared to the redblock when I was building my T5 shifter. I had initially bought a blown up Camaro T5 to use the tailhousing, but the shifter would have ended up under the floor anyways. So I built a custom remote shifter and measured off the motor mounts back to get it right in the hole where the M46 shifter popped up.
 
So I built a custom remote shifter and measured off the motor mounts back to get it right in the hole where the M46 shifter popped up.
I'd be interested to see pictures of what you came up with if you have any.
My shifter now comes up at the front of the shifter hole, just usable. It'll work for now.

A little update, I got the hydraulic clutch in. I Used a 4an line with a M12x1 to 4an banjo adapter at the master, and a adapter for the push in fitting that a lot of modern clutches use at the slave end. Disengages well after a few bleeds, in psyched that my setup seems like a go!
Waiting on some intercooler hoses, weld the exhaust today, and then I think we can give it a test run.

Anybody have a eggcrate grill for the foglught front they want to sell me?
 
Last edited:
How far we've come!
2016
S1qi4wtl.jpg

Now
22EpLnil.jpg


It's so close. Since May:
- Got the eggcrate grille from DET17, thanks!
- Took the coolant pipe off to re-weld it after finding 2 pinhole leaks - damn!
- Hooked up the exhaust -2.5" downpipe and stock rear... for now
- Plumbed in the intercooler
- Hooked up intake side of things/PCV/etc
- Swapped the Koni's over from the old 940 - adapted the rear ones to fit IRS
- new hood and trunk shocks so it stops trying to decapitate me!
- Got some goodies from Kaplhenke (Thanks Ben!) 11x275lb springs for the rear (should be around 200lb with the motion ratio of the rear arm.
ACbHLQim.jpg

- Rebuilt the driveshaft - center support and front U joint were notchy
JQ049Urm.jpg

MCKpgpJm.jpg

Found a NOS trans mount for the T5 to replace the knackered old one
MnderFxm.jpg


I just need to bolt in the drivers seat, find a spot to mount the ECU (I pulled the wiring harness through the firewall to put it in the drivers footwell). and wire the headlights, and then it's testdrive time!

I've run it already with the VAST tuning euro map and coil on plug and all seems well. Here's hoping it's driveable to start without the VVT plugged in!
 


Wow, this has piqued my interest in a big way. I have a T5 that I kludged an external slave cylinder to work with the clutch fork but I'd love to go with a hydraulic throwout bearing like you've got going here.

I'm confused, why the need to stack the bearing retainers? You're saying the 2010 slave cylinder will bolt (with modifications) to the T5 input bearing retainer?

Can you clarify this for my age addled brain?

Mike
 
Can you clarify this for my age addled brain?
Mike

Lol, happily Mike. I always hope posting all this stuff up will be of some help to others.

So with the s197 input retainer that has the provision for mounting the hydraulic slave cylinder, it can bolt to the front of the T5 transmission. (Well 3 out of 4 bolts) Awesome right!? Got me excited...
Then I realized it's diameter is about 1/4" less than that of the normal fox body/sn95 bearing retainer. So basically you lose the ability of the input retainer to center then transmission in the bellhousing, or adapter plate in our case.
I was just playing around with the parts I had on hand and noticed one of the SN95 retainers had the same outside diameter lip on it as a recess on the back of the S197 mustang retainer. So basically the sn95 retainer centers the tranny to the adapter plate, and the S197 retainer sits on it and centers on another smaller groove, and then the slave can bolt to that and is nicely centered.

Anyways, saved me getting machine work done to accomplish what I wanted. If I did it again (and I may) I would bug Roger at Deeworks to see if he would make a thicker adapter plate so I could use the longer input shaft from a SN95, have the shifter slightly further back, and use the stock S197 slave instead of the shorter version from the supercharged model. But hey, it works!
Hope that helps
 
Hey man, thanks very much.

It just dawned on me why you were able to stack to two bearing retainers because of the adapter plate.

I was was looking for a cheaper hydraulic t/o for a t5 with the stock ford bellhousing and I see that this probably wouldn't work... not that I've made any measurements.

Thanks again and awesome project!
 
Well let me know if you get some measurements. I have notes on the length of the 2 slave cylinder types somewhere...

And it runs! Well... I knew it ran, but it was always just for a few seconds before as a test. Tonight I ran it and let it idle up to temp. Seemed smooth!

How do you all post videos? Imgur who I use for photos doesn't seem to play the video when I upload it.

Hopefully a test drive tomorrow!
 
Congrats, I want videos indeed, you get that test drive in yet?

For videos I posted on YouTube, then used the embedded URL option and it worked well for me
 
Transmission is now installed in the 760! As it sits now I have just over 3mm of extra depth that the slave can compress to allow for clutch wear. Does that sound reasonable to any who have experience with setting up a slave?

I just saw this tonight, so sorry about the late response. I've fabricated a similar concentric throwout bearing system for one of my non-Volvo cars, a 1962 Lotus Seven.

Your assumption regarding 3mm (1/8") pressure plate finger clearance to allow for clutch wear is likely a very good one.

Background:
I've adapted a Ford T-9 with close ratio gears and Quaife alloy housing to the original Lotus bellhousing. To get the shift lever in the proper location (and not shorten the trans input shaft) I needed to make a spacer / adapter to mate the T-9's bolt pattern to the bellhousing. I had also moved the engine aft a couple of inches as well which made the concentric throwout bearing an absolute necessity as there was no longer any room for an external lever to stick out of the bellhousing w/o hitting the chassis.

50339688818_c1652cd8d9_b.jpg


I had originally planned to use the Ford T/O assy used on all of the Zetec / Duratec 4-cylinder applications as they are incredibly inexpensive. However they are spring loaded to the tune of about 10lbs when compressed. I was concerned with the resulting thrust load on the crankshaft causing engine thrust bearing wear as they are not 360 degree bearings in my 1962 vintage engine. So I used a Tilton unit instead as they retract fully when no pedal pressure is applied. Much more expensive than the Ford unit but much cheaper than an engine bearing failure!

In order to set the depth of the throwout bearing assy I performed a simple experiment; I measured the pressure plate finger height with my brand new 0.250" thick clutch in place with a dial indicator. Then I repeated the measurement with a 0.188" thick used clutch in place. The pressure plate finger height difference was about 0.090". So I set my static clearance for the throwout bearing at 0.130" to allow ~50% margin. I also checked throwout bearing tracel at full clutch pedal travel and found that it was about 15mm. The Tilton concentric slave has 19mm (3/4") maximum travel. This is important as you don't want to be able to push the slave past it's maximum travel; It can come apart!

The Tilton concentric throwout bearing installed with the feed and bleed lines routed and secured. Note that the bleed line is the one at the top of the bearing assy and exits through the left most ho,le in the top of the bellhousing. This allows for easy and consistent bleed once everything is bolted up and in the car:
50339700343_c3b390b8b1_b.jpg


The Tilton bearing / slave assy has a very convenient mounting system. It screws to a large diameter tube that is concentric to the trans input shaft. I accommodated this tube in my transmission adapter design. A simple shoulder Allen head bolt screws into my adapter and serves as the anti-rotation stop. This allows you to set a very precise clearance adjustment at the time of installation w/o additional machining.
 
Thanks for the confirmation escondidoron, that's comforting that you came up with a similar measurement for clutch wear. Appreciate you sharing it! Interesting what you mentioned about pushing the slave too far. I have 3/4" master which is what the mustang uses, but my clutch sure engages high, so that's on my mind. Maybe need to downsize the master.

Finally took it for a test drive last night! All seems well but I didn't go far or fast yet. Need to have an inspection done next. And need to wire the headlights, efan, and replace the broken e-brake cable the car came with (new one on the way from Volvo). I'll try and figure out a video at some point here.

Anybody have a S90 parts car? I also need to find a mounting solution for the ecu which is currently just sitting beside the clutch pedal. I noticed years ago when I saw a S90 at the yard last that they have a nice mount for the 4.4 ecu in that spot ...
 
Last edited:
Appreciate you sharing it! Interesting what you mentioned about pushing the slave too far. I have 3/4" master which is what the Mustang uses, but my clutch sure engages high, so that's on my mind. Maybe need to downsize the master.

940, I'm pretty sure that you know this already, but you can put your mind at ease WRT slave cylinder over-travel with a simple calculation by comparing the volume of fluid displaced by the master cylinder at maximum stroke to the volume of fluid required for the slave cylinder to reach maximum travel. If your master cylinder's maximum fluid displacement is less than that required for the slave's max travel by some amount that will give you a safety factor you should be good to go. In my case Id decided that I wanted at least a 25% safety factor just to be on the absolutely safe side. The down side of this approach to sizing the components is that you will need to find the effective piston area for the Mustang slave cylinder and it's maximum travel.

When I was designing my application and planning to use the Ford 4-cyl slave I contacted the folks at Centric by telephone (310.218.1091) and explained what info I was looking for. Centric is a major aftermarket parts supplier. While most of their parts are produced overseas they have an engineering office in the Los Angeles area. I provided the engineer that I spoke with their p/n and the he was able to provide me with the max stroke and piston area as well as emailed me a drawing with all of the pertinent hole patterns.

Or, since the Mustang and your application both use a 3/4" master cylinder, another option is to compare the maximum stroke of your master cylinder to that of the Mustang. If yours is less than the Mustang you should be good to go.

In any case, if the max fluid displacement of your master cylinder is close to or greater than the max travel for your slave you should consider installing a travel stop on your clutch pedal or, as you have suggested, go to a smaller diameter master cylinder. An unintended upside of going to a smaller diameter master cylinder will be reduced pedal effort. But it will also require increased pedal travel to move the slave.

BTW I like what you're doing. Nice work.
 
Over the weekend I got the headlights and e-fan wired, some wires tucked, and started re-wiring to the fuel pump relay can sit in the stock location. Inspection is happening later today.

I'm realizing I forget to stop an take progress photos very often.

zFA4FA8l.jpg

Rolled the car back and swept under it for the first time in years...

TsDNJvVl.jpg

Was wondering why I had trouble fitting the fan shroud that I had. Apparently the wider 92+ radiators are not as thick as the one on the 760V6. Cool!
Notice the gap in front, the shroud covers the entire top of the 92+ rad

Anybody have some euro corners that are in nice shape?
 
How'd you go about the fuel pump relay, last I checked with you it was still a mystery, mines just keyed 12v but if you have it figured out let me know
 
James - I did figure out the relay! I'll have to check cause I forget what pin it was, but there's a + trigger from M4.4 for the relay (unlink almost every other output which is a ground.

Also thanks for the hint on the tach. The M4.4 output does fire the tach, just shows me idling at about 300rpm. Does that seem consistent with that you have?

And yes, it passed! They let the one license plate light out that I missed slide. Registered it yesterday! Took it for a gas up and car wash and it really cleans up nicely.
BiMKeQql.jpg
It drives nicely overall.

I do have a loud rattle coming from the transmission at lower rpms in any gear if I give it more than about 25% throttle, which lasts about 5 seconds and then is quiet through the rest of the rev range. Not at all speed dependent. It's interesting cause it's reminiscent of what I would get at higher RPM's on the old 940 with b234 before I got my driveline angles sorted. Hopefully not just the harmonics of the whiteblock. Going to double check the driveshaft angles this weekend as a first step.

I had all the driveline angles bang on in the old car and had welded the trans mount at the right height for that setup. Maybe needs adjusted now that I've transplanted it. With the diff higher with IRS I had to shim the center carrier up all the way to get the drive angles reasonable. Probably pull the driveshaft this weekend (and drain the tranny fluid - ugh) and make sure it's right.

Other driving impressions, I like it so far with the rear springs and the koni's at +100% rebound - 3 clicks. The front is too bouncy, its an old set of IPD lowering springs with a coil cut. What can I expect. Hoping to use my spare strut housings to make some proper coilovers this winter. What would people suggest? If I have an effective spring rate of 200lb/in in the back, maybe 250 for the front? What length coils are people using without clearance issues?

Final thoughts - The front speakers keep cutting in and out. Too bad, I was hoping to keep the funky stock stereo with external equalizer for a while. Anybody aware of common issues with them? I'm guessing it's a bad transistor in the amp or something of the sort...
I have a slight rattle at idle which I think is the VVT hubs. Anybody have experience if they rattle when not hooked up? Probably time to talk to Aaron at Vast...
 
Last edited:
Let me know on that relay whenever you find the time.

I get an accurate reading on my tac, 800 at warm idle. Not sure why yours would be different. Does it get more accurate when you rev it?
 
Back
Top