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m47 jy tranny, visual inspection input request

bcg

New member
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Location
Houston
hi,

i've conducted a visual inspection of my jy m47 tranny. the oil was previously drained and empty before i saw it.

i didn't see any metal flakes anywhere inside the case. with the gearbox cover off, i slowly rolled the shaft inspecting all of the gears.

observations:
1. no wear, no teeth missing on any of the gears.
2. no leaks from top or back paper gaskets, cover or rear housing.
3. input shaft has some up and down play, but not forward or back.
4. no case damage
5. no play in rear shaft at all
6. can hear a ball bearing drop inside it's case when i rotate the shaft as if a ball bearing is loose, but if not packed in tightly, may be normal, not sure. no ball bearings or bearings are making any other noise and no bearings are loose inside the case.
7. no caked-on gunk inside the case, quite clean.
8. looks like the clutch decomposed some and some residue is inside the flywheel, which can be easily removed and clean. (clutch and pressure plate not taken)

question about point 3.
play in the input shaft may not make a difference because it's inserted into the engine and the input shaft splines wouldn't have any degrees of freedom. would this be correct?

after i have some first-level confidence in the tranny being ok this far, i'll ask some questions about what to replace while the tranny is out, obviously the sealing ring' what about the rear housing gasket, etc.

i'll post this in bb, also.

thanks,
byron golden
 
Hi Byron, we met the other day at LKQ!
Sounds like you have a winner to me.
I'd replace any seals you disturbed to do the inspection, fill it up with the synthetic fluid of your choice, and send it down the road.
Treat it to a new Guibo and a flywheel resurface as well.
Good luck with your swap!
 
3) the pilot bearing supports the nose of the input shaft so yes, it's supported.

If there's no delamination on the teeth of the input shaft, I'd just put it back together and run it. Disassembling these is a little bit of a pain in the ass. Maybe the output seal, MAYBE, but I'd probably just fire it in there.
 
Hi (is it?) Jon,
Yeah, sure I remember. Glad you remembered me! I didn't break any seals except the 1 paper gasket on the gear cover. I may go ahead and do the rear cover gasket as a precaution since it's not hard at all. I have the volvo green books on the m45-47 trannies and spare parts list, so I'm good there.

Yeah, saw the guibo, it's splitting and needs replacing and will replace the center bearing, too, while the donor shaft is out.

Question: can I resurface the flywheel using a wire brush attached to a drill or is it best to take it to a shop? yep, didn't think about resurfacing, but just like brake disks, resurface it.

i forgot to add, the flywheel had no heat stress/cracks, bluing, no scoring, and not burnt.

thanks for the assessment, and i feel better about it. I'll use some type of synthetic, and I read it's best to overfill it. Redline or volvo tranny fluid should work.

I'm looking up shops that'll do the resurfacing. I think it would be best to let a professional do it.

Thanks kyote! glad to hear from you,
Byron
 
Hi shoestring,

thanks for your reply and confirmation. great to know! no delamination exists on the input shaft teeth, so, I'll do a minimal r&r only on the easy-to-get stuff.

I won't install it at this time, 1. too hot here in Texas 2. my auto tranny is doing fine.

Thanks very much!
Byron
 
6. can hear a ball bearing drop inside it's case when i rotate the shaft as if a ball bearing is loose, but if not packed in tightly, may be normal, not sure. no ball bearings or bearings are making any other noise and no bearings are loose inside the case.

This would concern me. I would definitely try to locate the cause of this noise before installing the trans. Can you take a video of the noise and post it?
 
This would concern me. I would definitely try to locate the cause of this noise before installing the trans. Can you take a video of the noise and post it?

Yes, I'll try, never done that before. Good idea and thanks for looking into this. I'll post it in a couple of days.
 
Hi (is it?) Jon,
Yeah, sure I remember. Glad you remembered me! I didn't break any seals except the 1 paper gasket on the gear cover. I may go ahead and do the rear cover gasket as a precaution since it's not hard at all. I have the volvo green books on the m45-47 trannies and spare parts list, so I'm good there.

Yeah, saw the guibo, it's splitting and needs replacing and will replace the center bearing, too, while the donor shaft is out.

Question: can I resurface the flywheel using a wire brush attached to a drill or is it best to take it to a shop? yep, didn't think about resurfacing, but just like brake disks, resurface it.

i forgot to add, the flywheel had no heat stress/cracks, bluing, no scoring, and not burnt.

thanks for the assessment, and i feel better about it. I'll use some type of synthetic, and I read it's best to overfill it. Redline or volvo tranny fluid should work.

I'm looking up shops that'll do the resurfacing. I think it would be best to let a professional do it.

Thanks kyote! glad to hear from you,
Byron

I've resurfaced flywheels in a pinch with a little emory cloth, but since you have it apart no reason to not let the machine shop give it a clean up pass. Give Bobby at Scroggins Machine a call, if he can't do it for you he can point you the direction of who can. I go by Kyle in the real world :)
 
Any machine shop can resurface the flywheel. Should be $30-40. I've heard napa can do it too but haven't tried yet.
 
m47 youtube video of the m47 bearing noise, >2min

Here the link to a youtube video I created earlier today.

https://youtu.be/7lhnb-wzNRg

Three of 4 bearings are available but at about $50/ea. Some euro companies could have the 4th bearing.

Anybody familiar with this bearings rolling around its case?

Thanks,
Byron
 
Here the link to a youtube video I created earlier today.

https://youtu.be/7lhnb-wzNRg

Three of 4 bearings are available but at about $50/ea. Some euro companies could have the 4th bearing.

Anybody familiar with this bearings rolling around its case?

Thanks,
Byron

That doesn't sound good. I'm afraid you're going to have to open it up and take a look.

There are a total of 6 bearings in an M47, 2 of which are NLA.

If I had to guess I'd say it's the rear bearing on the main shaft. It's comprised of an inner and outer race and a roller bearing. I think the plastic separator has disintegrated allowing the individual bearings to bunch up. I believe the sound you're hearing is a bearing rolling up over the top and then down the other side. Unfortunately it's one of the NLA bearings.

roulement-cage-boite-de-vitesses-m47-1232993-pour-volvo-240-260.jpg
 
Hi Hiperfauto,
thanks for the reply on the NLA bearing. You're exactly right, the same conclusion I had. I saw a youtube video on someone disassembling the rear housing; I saw it and have the part number, too. It's in a plastic casing. Why Volvo has it in plastic is ridiculous.

I have the digital spare parts catalog and missed counting the final two bearings, a total of 6.

It's difficult to find another M47 around here near Houston.

And the same conclusion, take the rear housing off and take a look at that bearing.

Thanks,
Byron
 
Hi shoestring,
After moving my m47 into the garage, I looked at my p/n 1232993 bearing and it is intact, luckily. I checked the sound again, and it appears to be from the front counterbalance bearing, another cylinder bearing, and again, NLA, Volvo p/n 1209392. However, I found a direct replacement with a removable inner ring. When removed, it is the same, exact bearing. The direct replacement SKF bearing is NU304ECP; NU = inner ring; RNU = no inner ring. So, I ordered 2 NU bearings, one as a spare. Same dimensions after removing the inner ring (27.5x50x15 mm3) and same number of cylinder bearings

On Volvo forums, a member removed the front countershaft bearing without removing the countershaft. He used angled needle nose pliers to pull it out. I think I'm all clear to replacing the bearing and bolting it back up. I'll pull the bell housing and check the bearing for sure. I don't think it's the front main bearing, a little more work to get to, and I don't have the special tools.

regards,
byron
 
FYI, the original countershaft bearing has an external clip that's not on the NU304ECP bearing. You'll need to have a groove machined in the new bearing and re-use the clip.

You can kind of see the clip in this pic.

JP4I5oCE4t73VADZ
 
Thanks, yes, I believe I see it, top right about 2 o'clock.

I didn't know that, extremely important to know. Thanks for that.
 
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