Vintage: Does anyone know what motor oil Irv Gordon used??

[everyhumanvovo]

Curious, as I have a B20 swapped into my '64 122 and someone just informed they like SAE30 which I guess means natural straight 30 weight in these trusty red blocks. Only thing I recall or have read about Irv Gordon and oil is that he always used the same brand or weight of oil and thought it was important.

Recall from somewhere Irv may have had his engine rebuilt twice which I guess means same block and head, but other parts could be changed. Have never been clear on this.

Personally, have used Castrol 10w30 with a quart of Lucas oil treatment. Recently, decided to try Castrol high mileage semi-synthetic with a quart of Lucas. Seems to vibrate more. Like the natural Castrol oil better, thicker I think regardless of weight.

Reason have looked for other supposedly longer lasting oils, whether correct or not, is it seems natural mineral oil seems to become darker sooner which I assumed with my lead foot meant it was breaking down.

Was also going to try the LiquiMoly 10w40 MoS2 semi-synthetic in my 1987 B23. Saw very good reviews of this oil at FCP. Any suggestions much appreciated for these two red blocks!

[c1800]

I believe he used Castrol GTX 20W50 in the summer, 15W40 in the shoulder seasons, and 10W30 in the winter.

Of course he could exceed the oil change limit every weekend!

Don't use straight 30W oil.

Also don't see a need for Lucas... snake oil. Opinions about motor oil are widespread, i.e. everyone has one, as in "it works for me" with no substance to their recommendation. Stick to the basics.
Use what's recommended in the owners manual.

[cwdodson88]

Just throw some brotella 15w40 in it, change it regularly, and cut a filter open once a year. Or royal purple race oil. It haz the zddp for your flat tappet cam.

[c1800]

I'd stay away from racing oil, doesn't have the detergent, anticorrosive, antifoam and dispersant additives, as its changed after every race (or is supposed be changed).

I use NAPA All Fleet 15W40, has the higher zinc and phosphorus for our flat tappet engines. The rotella is good too.

[283SD]

I use Mobil 1 in all of our cars, lawn mower's, yard tractor's, snow blower,etc. The cars get an oil change @ 5K miles, the yard equipment once a year. I have been using Mobil 1 since 1980, whatever works for you.

[shoestring]

Evidence suggests you can run Rotella 15w40 year round and forget about it.

[Janspeed]

Originally Posted by shoestring

Evidence suggests you can run Rotella 15w40 year round and forget about it.

Depends in what climate the car is being used. 15Wxx seems a bit viscous during long snowy/ice winter weather. Regardless how good that oil is.

[IansPlatinum]

They're thinking of the oil used in the m41, which is called out as SAE 30 and I would try to use that... there is a manufacturer for it, but I forget who.

[apachechef]

saw some video that had an interesting take.
proposed that using the same oil type continuously was better than switching around, as some additive may react with others an precipitate/form unwanted compounds.

food for thought.

[kyote]

Rotella T4 15w40 in old stuff, T6 5w40 in new stuff. I K.I.S.S.

[stove]

https://www.castrol.com/en_us/united...-the-hood.html

[everyhumanvovo]

Originally Posted by Janspeed

Depends in what climate the car is being used. 15Wxx seems a bit viscous during long snowy/ice winter weather. Regardless how good that oil is.

Yes, that is right. Live in Mickigan, the colder peninsula, couple days a year close to 90, so maybe 10-30 or 10-40 Rotella year round. Have not tried it, but was aware of and maybe it will quiet the click tap !!

[apachechef]

Originally Posted by stove

https://www.castrol.com/en_us/united...-the-hood.html

congrats on the perfect answer.

[everyhumanvovo]

Originally Posted by stove

https://www.castrol.com/en_us/united...-the-hood.html

Amazing !! I bet he never had it over 5,000 rpm and babied it all the way. Next question, did he like any additives such as zinc, and, did he use ethanol ??

[everyhumanvovo]

Originally Posted by kyote

Rotella T4 15w40 in old stuff, T6 5w40 in new stuff. I K.I.S.S.

Did Rotella replace the zinc with a similar additive? Zinc may have been removed as was just at Advance auto and did not see any mention of zinc on either T4 or T5 bottles. A small bottle of Lucas ZDDP zinc additive was 20$. Did not check but hopefully can be used for several changes.

Aware red blocks are somewhat similar to a tractor engine, but is oil designed for diesel engines appropriate ?

[rb92673]

Originally Posted by everyhumanvovo

Did Rotella replace the zinc with a similar additive? Zinc may have been removed as was just at Advance auto and did not see any mention of zinc on either T4 or T5 bottles. A small bottle of Lucas ZDDP zinc additive was 20$. Did not check but hopefully can be used for several changes.

Aware red blocks are somewhat similar to a tractor engine, but is oil designed for diesel engines appropriate ?

As I understand it, passenger car oil has been changed over the years to meet clean engine standards. Newer cars don't need lots of zinc to keep things like flat tappets happy. Valvoline makes a higher zinc oil VR1 labeled as 'Racing Oil'. I also have classic Mini which needs the zinc and I run Valvoline ZR1 Racing Oil in it which has the zinc needed and comes in the weight I need. I believe Kendall has a high zinc oil as well.

Rotella is just fine in the B230FT, but I don't know anything about your engine, nor do I know if it has zinc anymore.

[c1800]

Zinc and or phosphorus was significantly reduced with the advent of Catalytic convertors, it plugs them up. Flat tappet engines require a higher level of Z and P. I'll say it again, while various experiences with racing oil might be non eventful, racing oil is short on other additives required for 3000 mile+ oil change intervals. You'll have to do some in depth research, some racing oils have no detergents etc., some have more than others.

Yes the Diesel oils are fine, providing they maintain the higher levels of Z and P, something over 1000ppm. usually in the 1200 - 1300 ppm range.

[c1800]

Originally Posted by everyhumanvovo

Did Rotella replace the zinc with a similar additive? Zinc may have been removed as was just at Advance auto and did not see any mention of zinc on either T4 or T5 bottles. A small bottle of Lucas ZDDP zinc additive was 20$. Did not check but hopefully can be used for several changes.

Aware red blocks are somewhat similar to a tractor engine, but is oil designed for diesel engines appropriate ?

I don't think you'll always find the specs for motor oil on the bottle. You'll need to do some internet research to find out the additive content. i.e from the manufacturers website, often hard to find.


Mobil racing oil. Not recommended for street use.
https://images.carid.com/mobil-1/ite...duct-guide.pdf

On this page about half way down you'll find a link to Mobil One Product Guide that has the Z and P levels of various Mobil One products.

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...rmance-10w-30/

And don't think that using Castrol GTX will be fine, i've seen references to Castrol significantly lowering the Z&P levels to comply with modern engines, so as to maintain their brand value. I cant find their data, it appears many manufacturers dont reveal that info.

[dl242gt]

A few years back. The EPA mandated the lowering the zinc levels to help converters last longer. Oils like Castrol. lowered the amount to comply. It doesn't protect a flat tappet engine that is freshly rebuilt. An old engine will usually have enough zince embedded to be ok to use. When I was browsing the summit racing web site. There seemed to be a couple of types of 'Racking oil'. Some said they were ok for street cars and other read as 'off road use only' kind of thing. The ones ok for street use had higher zinc than what is mandated for standard engine oil so it's good for older engine designs.

[283SD]

I posted above that I use Mobil 1, I use 15/50 in all our cars, never a winter issue, we live in NY.One of the other cars that we have is a 1960 S2 Bentley, [6.25 all alum V8] in that I use 20/50 VR-1 Valvoline high zinc [holds 2 gallons of oil], will use Mobil 1 next oil change,$$$. For old push rod engines you need the zinc to prevent cam/lifter wear, yes they took zinc out to keep the "cats" clean.

[Mr. V]

Irv changed his oil every three thousand miles.

With such frequent oil changes it really may not matter too much which weight or brand he used.

I change oil and filter frequently and use Wal-Mart branded Supertech dino oil for my three turbobricks; I have used entry-level oils for decades and have never experienced an oil-related issue.

Personally I think people who don't change their oil and filter more frequently than the car mfr. rcommends are taking an unnecessary risk.

[iamrolling]

I've been using the cheap "Formula Shell" 10w30. It seems adequate. The only time I had an issue with oil was when I used Quake State 10w30 once and ended up with a thick brown layer at the bottom of my head. It disappeared after the next change though.

[stove]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Irv changed his oil every three thousand miles.

With such frequent oil changes it really may not matter too much which weight or brand he used.

I change oil and filter frequently and use Wal-Mart branded Supertech dino oil for my three turbobricks; I have used entry-level oils for decades and have never experienced an oil-related issue.

Personally I think people who don't change their oil and filter more frequently than the car mfr. rcommends are taking an unnecessary risk.

THIS

[volvowagoon]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Irv changed his oil every three thousand miles.

With such frequent oil changes it really may not matter too much which weight or brand he used.

I change oil and filter frequently and use Wal-Mart branded Supertech dino oil for my three turbobricks; I have used entry-level oils for decades and have never experienced an oil-related issue.

Personally I think people who don't change their oil and filter more frequently than the car mfr. rcommends are taking an unnecessary risk.

Yep. I agree.

I don't get why people think Irv's car is so legendary. Yes, the SHELL was propelled much further than most other vehicles, but it certainly wasn't record breaking. I say shell because beyond the oil change deal, I also recall reading that he made the Volvo dealer rebuild his engine every 300k regardless of whether it was necessary it or not.

At that rate, just run Super Tech conventional or whatever is on sale. Besides, I'm a believer that the majority of your engine bearing issues in older cars are going to be caused by long-starts (little to no oil pressure) and outside junk that get into the oil from crappy old case vents. The most expensive oil in the world isn't going to save you from that. This is one of the major reasons why "highway miles" are different from city miles in terms of longevity. Less start-ups = less problems.

[JohnMc]

I hadn't read that. Certainly, little was spared in terms of maintenance, but everything I've ever read on the topic of Irv's car said that it had a fair amount of work done at around 750K miles (new cam/lifters, head redone, no bottom end work though). And then proceeded to cover another 2 million miles without significant work. Until a very comprehensive rebuild (still the original block, crank, rods, head) at around 2.7 million miles.