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Different Take on a V8 Swap - Duder's 4.6L Twin Turbo 245

I had a set of knock off Type 3's and LOVED them on the red 86 slicktop 240 wagon I had in England. Turns out the knock offs are actually more rare than the real thing because the company producing them were shut down very quickly by AC Schnitzer. :rofl:

Someone must be making new knock-offs now - over the past few years I've seen them on tons of E36s, Z3s, etc.
 
Nice. I took the idea from Poik (Eric) who also mocked it up and said something similar. The physical mods necessary seem very straightforward, but like you I'm cautious about the geometry details.

One very nice thing about going to an E36 style stock strut or coilover setup is that the upright bolts on to the strut housing, so you can make camber adjustments by using carefully selected shims between the two parts. We did this on my E36 Lemons car and it worked out awesomely.

I will definitely have too look into this as well as I have a set of 5x120 wheels that I would like to install and was trying to determine the best route for this. Adapters are obviously the easiest but you might be able to make a few upgrades at one time with the E36 hardware.

What are you planning for brake assist? Hydroboost?
 
I will definitely have too look into this as well as I have a set of 5x120 wheels that I would like to install and was trying to determine the best route for this. Adapters are obviously the easiest but you might be able to make a few upgrades at one time with the E36 hardware.

What are you planning for brake assist? Hydroboost?

For brakes I can't use a vacuum booster in the stock location. There are a few options and they are interrelated to power steering choices I need to make as well, and turbo exhaust packaging.

Brake options:
  • Hydroboost from a Mustang or Astro van
  • Relocated vacuum booster with a linkage, like an E34 540i
  • Relocated vacuum booster with purely hydraulic connection, like an 1800
  • Some manner of electro-mechanical booster
  • No power brakes - careful selection of MC & caliper hardware & redesign of pedal to ensure light enough effort with reasonable travel (not ideal but maybe doable)

Hydraulic pump options:
  • Stock Mustang belt-driven PS pump into steering rack and/or hydroboost - this will make my driver's side exhaust manifold & downpipe packaging more difficult
  • Electro-hydraulic booster, from a modern Mini or MR2, into steering rack and/or hydroboost - maybe asking too much to get both steering and brake assist from one of these

Steering options:
  • Stock Volvo power rack fed by belt driven PS pump or Mini electric pump
  • Manual rack or de-powered rack with electric assist - Prius or Yaris column for example, under the dash
  • Pure manual (last choice)

If I do electric or manual steering assist, I could potentially use one of the Mini electro-hydraulic pumps in conjunction with a hydroboost brake setup, as another permutation.
 
I owned an 02 Mustang GT. The brakes were pretty damn decent, and they had the remote booster servo.
Don't know if that's your criteria, or if you're looking at purely fitment.
Also, it's interesting that your old B20 has a red crank pulley. I always thought they were black. Maybe I should redo mine on my 73....
Cool project, by the way. Was looking forward to you hotrodding the B20 though!
Steve
 
I owned an 02 Mustang GT. The brakes were pretty damn decent, and they had the remote booster servo.
Don't know if that's your criteria, or if you're looking at purely fitment.
Also, it's interesting that your old B20 has a red crank pulley. I always thought they were black. Maybe I should redo mine on my 73....
Cool project, by the way. Was looking forward to you hotrodding the B20 though!
Steve

Hydroboost makes the most sense I think; thanks for the feedback about your Mustang. Only trouble is, then I need my power steering pump to run both steering & brakes unless I go with electric boosted or manual steering.

I should probably get my hands on a stock '05 Mustang PS pump, install it on the engine, and see if I can get my exhaust plumbing puzzle solved.
 
I'll say that the manual/un-boosted brakes on the rally car are really easy to live with, even with cold Hawk DTC30 brake pads. Yes, it requires more force than a boosted setup, it's only ~2x more force.
 
I'll say that the manual/un-boosted brakes on the rally car are really easy to live with, even with cold Hawk DTC30 brake pads. Yes, it requires more force than a boosted setup, it's only ~2x more force.

Thanks for the feedback; that's encouraging to hear. What is your brake setup - which MC and calipers are you using? Stock 240 stuff?
 
Thanks for the feedback; that's encouraging to hear. What is your brake setup - which MC and calipers are you using? Stock 240 stuff?

Wilwood forged superlight internals (1.62 bore) in the front with 11.75" x1.25" rotors, and some dynalight 4 piston (1.12 bore) on 11x0.8" rotors out back.

MCs are 3/4" front and rear, with a Tilton bias bar added into the stock pedal box using a 6:1 ratio. I'd probably go 5.5:1 next time.

Stay tuned for a brake kit using these calipers from STS... they'll fit withing an OEM 16" wheel or most aftermarket 15" wheels.

There are some pictures of the pedal box and firewall plate in this album:

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/gp/151736174@N04/7QtLkz" title="Rally Racing"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/790/40268221044_9987b8572d.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Rally Racing"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Wilwood forged superlight internals (1.62 bore) in the front with 11.75" x1.25" rotors, and some dynalight 4 piston (1.12 bore) on 11x0.8" rotors out back.

MCs are 3/4" front and rear, with a Tilton bias bar added into the stock pedal box using a 6:1 ratio. I'd probably go 5.5:1 next time.

Stay tuned for a brake kit using these calipers from STS... they'll fit withing an OEM 16" wheel or most aftermarket 15" wheels.

Interesting - thanks for all the specs. Splitting up into dual master cylinders is something I hadn't considered yet, but looks like it fits nicely.

If I do go with un-boosted brakes then I'll likely use some form of E36 M3 calipers, either stock or an upgrade package that works with the E36 hubs. I'm not planning to run anything smaller than 17" wheels on this particular car so will use the stock M3 rotor size or larger. I think stock M3 is 315mm x 28mm but I may go with something slightly over that.
 
Wilwood forged superlight internals (1.62 bore) in the front with 11.75" x1.25" rotors, and some dynalight 4 piston (1.12 bore) on 11x0.8" rotors out back.

MCs are 3/4" front and rear, with a Tilton bias bar added into the stock pedal box using a 6:1 ratio. I'd probably go 5.5:1 next time.

Stay tuned for a brake kit using these calipers from STS... they'll fit withing an OEM 16" wheel or most aftermarket 15" wheels.

There are some pictures of the pedal box and firewall plate in this album:

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/gp/151736174@N04/7QtLkz" title="Rally Racing"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/790/40268221044_9987b8572d.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Rally Racing"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Nice photos! Have a build thread? Always like your posts and info that you post up!
 
More thoughts about brake boosters - I just found this Australian remote booster, the PBR VH44. No idea if this is a decent product or not but this (or something like it) may solve a few problems at once for me here. It would allow vacuum boosted brakes for simplicity's sake, without the need for any electric or electro-hydraulic boosting apparatus. The fact that it's de-coupled from the master cylinder would let me choose the best MC for the job in regards to volume ratios vs. the calipers. I think it may also be compact enough to hide it under the inner fender, ahead of the front wheel on the driver's side.



I'm writing this up now mostly as a reminder to myself to look into this more!
 
That's interesting. So the remote booster just gets plumbed in-line from the master to the junction block? I'm also sort of always looking for good options to remove the stock booster.
 
Jaguar did a similar thing with much of their 60's and 70's stuff.
Most familiar to me is the 3.8S/4.2S cars. They had a master on the firewall, then a remote booster and "solenoid" plumbed in to improve power.
 
I'm guessing the master on the firewall is just a single circuit and its only job is to jab at the back of the booster, just like the rod directly from the pedal normally would, and then the master on the remote booster has a normal-ish F/R split. PBR is reasonably well known for pads, so it might not be garbage, lol. I wish I'd known of something like that back when I had a 140 I was dreaming about engine swapping :oops:
 
The VH44 has been around since the 50's or there about's and continues to be used on a lot of older cars. There is a lot of info around on the net about them. You may need a larger booster though such as the VH40 which is similar but a bigger diameter and provides additional booster assistance.

PBR are well known in Australia and supplied brakes for a lot of cars built in the country back when that was still happening.
 
I should add they are designed with 1 line in, 1 line out. When it comes to dual circuits there are a lot of things to consider but one option with appropriate sizing may be using a dual circuit master cylinder with only the front brakes going through the booster. Otherwise two boosters to do the two separate circuits.
 
Packaging can certainly be a challenge! I ended up running a relocated Hydroboost fed by a KRC pump on my E30 with good results. KRC also has a range of valves to play with for dialing in the amount of assist you like.

5HLmB1nh.jpg


Bell cranks to relocate:

BjdMB8uh.jpg


sEQBN4Gh.jpg
 
Whoa, thanks for all the feedback guys.

Ian - of course, and good point. The remote booster would indeed only work on one circuit. There may be something to the idea of boosted front / unboosted rear, if I end up going that way. I do like the remote vacuum booster idea because it eliminates another hydraulic circuit.

Volvo244GLE - good input; thanks for chiming in with the knowledge!

Tyler - yes, this gets plumbed in-line (in one circuit as others noted) with the output of the un-boosted MC feeding the inlet port of this remote booster. I wonder if any analogous dual-circuit remote boosters exist out there...

Nate - I remember seeing your bellcrank linkages but didn't notice (or internalize) the fact that you used hydroboost on the E30. I'll pick your brain more on that soon. In my project I have room for the MC on the firewall, and I think I have room for hydroboost there as well. I haven't seen any 3-valve 4.6 into 240 swaps other than mine but I know of several people here who've used hydroboost and had clearance for it with 2-valve and 4-valve 4.6 engines. How's the Smurf?
 
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