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Need a bigger hammer . . .

TestPoint

TestPoint

Active member
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Location
Ellijay
I am in the process of converting a 4 cylinder configured 4 speed AW70 transmission to mate up with a B28F PRV with the BW55 3 speed presently in the Bertone identified in the link below.

Ran out of "shelter in place" things to do.

The V6 PRV was only connected to a AW70 4 speed with the mechanical speedometer connection for a couple years. I believe only '82, '83 and maybe '84 and in very low quantities. The bell housing being the connection issue.

I have been able to acquire a PRV bell housing and a AW70 transmission in some semblance of usable. The task today is to remove the bolts securing the bell housing to the transmission case.

I tried a serious commercial electric impact driver that is much more powerful than my 250 ft lb air tool.

s-l640.jpg


Got all but one of smaller bolts out. Didn't have any affect on the two larger bolts. Haven't rounded the bolt heads yet but see that in my future.

Tried a breaker bar with a 4' extension and a 4 lb hammer but couldn't keep it aligned well enough to be effective.

Considering heat.

Suggestions?
 
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Heat, oil, cold water, heat, oil, cold water.

Getting it hot and then thermally shocking it will do it some good, ESP steel hardware in an aluminum case. Don't overlook using a hammer to hit the end of a socket wrench or hammer to break it loose either.
 
If it won't come out. You can weld some metal and nuts to it so you have more reach. Plus the electric action of the welding helps free threads. Or use a small grinder/dremel to cut the head of the bolt off.
 
Heat the bolt and it expands and wait a bit then try. Don't heat the aluminum around the bolt. Also my Blue Point air impact does 450ft/lbs. Need more I can use my nitrogen tank with 500psi Nascar regulator..
 
Is there any skew between the bellhousing and transmission with all of the other bolts removed? Might help to put the other bolts back in just tight enough to hold it together straight. I'm probably wrong just because they've withstood several hundred foot pounds already, but maybe.
 
dl242gt said:
If it won't come out. You can weld some metal and nuts to it so you have more reach. Plus the electric action of the welding helps free threads. Or use a small grinder/dremel to cut the head of the bolt off.
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Yep. Either welding another nut to it or just heating it bright red with an oxy torch will do wonders.
You may also want to just strike the head of the bolt dead on to help shock it too.
 
Is it still stuck? I have another desperation move that's worked for me with some really stuck large bolts. Take a normal length ratchet, not a breaker bar, and find the best fitting 6 point short socket, not deep well, that you can get around the bolt. Hold the socket end of the ratchet as straight as you can, and beat the hell out of the handle with that hammer. Put some weight into it. Try a clockwise whack or two if it's really holding tight. You'll want to use a ratchet with a beefy handle for this.
 
Still stuck . . . .

Tried propane torch heat which is all I have without success. I think one problem is that I do not have an impact extension or sockets. Than means the the driver hammer is only beating on a 10" spring shaft.

I tried the breaker bar and hammer without success probably for the same reason. Plus I didn't have enough hands to hold it and get a good whack at it.

No welding equipment but the bolts are not round yet.

Got a call in for loan of a serious impact driver and correct hardened sockets and extensions.

Stay tuned, this is going to happen.
 
TestPoint said:
Tried propane torch heat which is all I have without success. I think one problem is that I do not have an impact extension or sockets. Than means the the driver hammer is only beating on a 10" spring shaft.

I tried the breaker bar and hammer without success probably for the same reason. Plus I didn't have enough hands to hold it and get a good whack at it.

No welding equipment but the bolts are not round yet.

Got a call in for loan of a serious impact driver and correct hardened sockets and extensions.

Stay tuned, this is going to happen.
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Try a map gas torch in the future. I think I got mine for something like $40 at Home Depot, probably cheaper on amazon now. They burn much hotter than the blue butane or propane bottles, it's saved me a few times.

FYI, impact sockets are softer than chrome so they will not shatter.

PS, if that stimulus check is burning a hole in your pocket and you want to invest in some more fancy tech on amazon, the Milwaukee 1/2 battery impact will crack loose just about anything you can throw at it.

Good luck! I've never seen a b280 in person. I almost bought a 760 a few states over just to tinker with one.
 
TestPoint said:
I tried the breaker bar and hammer without success probably for the same reason. Plus I didn't have enough hands to hold it and get a good whack at it.
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I only suggested the short ratchet because I've never had luck with hammering at the end of a long breaker bar. Even when I use a breaker bar for pounding, I have the best luck hammering closer to the drive. Less opportunity for the socket to slip off. But if the maneuver isn't possible, that doesn't help anyway. Do you have to hold onto it separately from the tools because it's a loose transmission and bellhousing assembly? It might help to secure it to your transmission jack and immobilize the wheels, even if you're going the impact gun route. Reduce its chances of fighting your efforts.
 
iamrolling said:
I only suggested the short ratchet because I've never had luck with hammering at the end of a long breaker bar. ...
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My hammer technique is to use a tool with the fewest mechanical junctions as possible. A box wrench, or as termed in the UK, a ring spanner. While it is rare to find one with six points, I've never damaged a bolt head with a 12 point. The key, for me, is to use my left thumb to hold the ring securely on the bolt head or nut, while getting as much speed into my dominant right arm to swing the hammer at the end of the wrench.

Of course, this works better as the work is held still, such as a transmission still in the car, or other secure counter hold. A 2-lb drilling hammer develops a lot of inertia, but a heavy rubber mallet is my first choice for the way it "grabs" the end of the wrench and doesn't tend to glance off.

Even with electric or air powered impact, it is important to make as direct a mechanical connection as possible -- meaning fewest extensions and joints between the tool and the object. Can't say I've ever managed to swing a hammer with success where the air or electric impact didn't do it. I have one nut yet to crack, but it is the anode in an electric water heater buried under 6" of insulation, not accessible to my hammer mechanics. I imagine the challenge of getting at the bell housing to transmission bolt head is similar.

impact09.jpg
 
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Similar to Art I’ve had good luck using even a 12 pt box end wrench and pounding it with a rubber mallet to break loose some very stuck flywheel bolts. The key is to keep the connection of your loosening agent and bolt steady with one hand while using the other hand to firmly and swiftly connect with your mallet or hammer.
 
Just out of curiosity, what impact wrench were you using?

I have pulled Honda D series crank bolts with my Milwaukee and a basic 19mm impact socket. The weighted socket is much more effective because F=MA. More mass more better.
 
Are you working on a transmission that is out of the car? I would think some heat , 6 point wrench and a small sledge hammer for better control, would do the trick. Good luck!
 
iHateVolvoPeople said:
Just out of curiosity, what impact wrench were you using?
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I have a 50 year old 7.5a 1/2" drive serious professional electric impact driver. It will break anything in or out especially those things not intended to be broken.

Just not these 3 bolts.

One bolt is exposed for potential use of a 'ring spanner' but there is no room within the bell housing to swing much of a hammer. The other two, at the bottom of the picture, are set back into the casting and only accessible with a socket.

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Gotta drive 50 miles but have a 3/4" commercial electric impact tool available for pickup tomorrow. My son-in-law uses very large tools, far larger than auto tools, to build elevators.

The three bolts that came out without issue did not show any sign of thread lock so it is probably only amalgamation of the steel bolts and aluminum casting installed some 39 years ago. The bolts are all 4+ inches long so that it is going to take a lot of heat to get back to the threads.
 
We had to buy a 3/4" electric impact to do our truck lug nuts. It is an old school corded one that has been impressive. A good ebay deal. Hope the one you are using gets the bolts out.
 
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