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Old 03-24-2011, 11:47 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by fidel View Post
here is a graph of your cam, yours is the one that is labeled old
Yep, crazy accel. eh? I am giving it one more try...
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:49 AM   #77
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I've been staying tuned to this as well. Seeing how much a 530 can be cleaned up vs. the size and design differences of the 531, it's been quite interesting. My 531 is currently at the MS anyway for a crack repair, but it'll see some blending on the exhaust side and that's about it before it goes back on the motor.

Interesting, the RSI cam's don't even get big enough to need a 531 until you're talking non-streetable per their spec, yet the 531 was a stock spec head for overseas. What's missing here?
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:03 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by gsellstr View Post
Interesting, the RSI cam's don't even get big enough to need a 531 until you're talking non-streetable per their spec, yet the 531 was a stock spec head for overseas. What's missing here?
The 531 head was only fitted to the 740 and as far as I'm aware it was always used with an A cam, the A has 10.5mm of lift and 254 duration. The 530 was used on the later cars with a T cam, 9.94mm of lift and 225 duration.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:16 AM   #79
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The 531 head was only fitted to the 740 and as far as I'm aware it was always used with an A cam, the A has 10.5mm of lift and 254 duration. The 530 was used on the later cars with a T cam, 9.94mm of lift and 225 duration.
Volvo 940 could be had with a B230FB engine too. A B230F had a 1000530 cylinder head and a M-cam, and i think 115 hp. The B230FB had a 1000531 head and a VX-cam (or maybe VX3, can't remeber for sure which one) and 136 hp.
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:11 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by gsellstr View Post
Interesting, the RSI cam's don't even get big enough to need a 531 until you're talking non-streetable per their spec, yet the 531 was a stock spec head for overseas. What's missing here?
This is what I was trying to explain before everyone got butthurt and started calling me names.

The point is that a ported 530 will not give up the area under the curve that a 531 will.
Stock for stock the 531 makes a little more power. Nobody's arguing that.

But, if you want to build something that is say, sub 400whp (Jon could comment better on what the actual output might be, I'm just guessing), and doesn't necessitate a gnarly cam, a worked 530 will not be a restriction, and will provide better midrange torque than a 531 will. All you are doing going with a 531 is costing yourself midrange. The 531 is only truly a better choice on a wild enough build where the power band and cam choice reflect the stage at which a worked 531 will have ideal port velocities, etc.
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:34 AM   #81
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That actually clarifies a lot. Thanks!
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Old 03-25-2011, 12:35 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Captain Bondo View Post
The point is that a ported 530 will not give up the area under the curve that a 531 will.
Stock for stock the 531 makes a little more power. Nobody's arguing that.

But, if you want to build something that is say, sub 400whp (Jon could comment better on what the actual output might be, I'm just guessing), and doesn't necessitate a gnarly cam, a worked 530 will not be a restriction, and will provide better midrange torque than a 531 will. All you are doing going with a 531 is costing yourself midrange. The 531 is only truly a better choice on a wild enough build where the power band and cam choice reflect the stage at which a worked 531 will have ideal port velocities, etc.
In other words, choose your head (and it's particulars) based on your objectives.
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Old 03-25-2011, 12:36 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Fivehundred View Post
The 531 head was only fitted to the 740 and as far as I'm aware it was always used with an A cam, the A has 10.5mm of lift and 254 duration. The 530 was used on the later cars with a T cam, 9.94mm of lift and 225 duration.
Th 531 I used to have had a V cam in it.
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:32 PM   #84
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In other words, choose your head (and it's particulars) based on your objectives.
Yes, and in order to do that people need to actually understand what the difference is.
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:48 PM   #85
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That actually clarifies a lot. Thanks!
+1! I'll still try the 531, but I see your point now.
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Old 03-25-2011, 03:36 PM   #86
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Th 531 I used to have had a V cam in it.
Then presumably it wasn't a 531 which originated on a turbo car? Both the V and VX are fairly high lift cams as standard Volvo cams go, 11.27 and 11.37 respectively.
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Old 03-25-2011, 03:46 PM   #87
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Some marine 531s came with V cams
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:33 PM   #88
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Then presumably it wasn't a 531 which o0riginated on a turbo car?
That would be my guess.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:18 PM   #89
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This is why I did not put in larger exhaust valves when I changed to a 405 on my 82 turbo. I figured I wasn't going to exceed the valve flow and it would behave well with my street car. While it might not have quite as much midrange as a 160 or 398 might have with my engine. It still runs very well. The cam is an enem V15 turbo advanced 2 degrees. The engine has good low end and mid range but prefers to be revved up for maximum enjoyment. The head was flowed by D&F Performance in Berlin NJ.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:26 PM   #90
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Very lightly modified 405, standard valves, B21F intake, too-big T04b 60trim compressor. I had no issues with mid-range- got better (by the butt dyno)when I downsized to a T3 60 trim.
Oops, this was with CK1 prototype cam- K exhaust lobe, and intake ~10.5mm (can't remember the duration).

Last edited by Canuckvolvo; 03-26-2011 at 10:41 AM.. Reason: forgot cam info
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Old 03-25-2011, 07:08 PM   #91
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Stock valvetrain on these heads only can handle up to 12.5mm lift as I recall reading on old ClubVolvo and here. That is why Doug (Hank Scorpio) bought a enem K15 cam back when he built the saffron car. You need to use oversize cam followers to go above 12.5mm lift.
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Old 03-25-2011, 08:13 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
You need to use oversize cam followers to go above 12.5mm lift.
Pretty sure it's a lot higher than that, but I'm not sure of the magic number.

edit: says 14mm lift, still with stock buckets
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Old 03-25-2011, 08:25 PM   #93
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I guess the availability vs cost would be a factor in choosing a head. If you can't get a nice 531 at a reasonable cost (then work it) use a 530, as you see no real benefit. Is that the point?

531 on the B230FB and FX with a VX3 cam you get 20hp over a B230F. These motors are reasonably available here.
So with these motors and the B230ET what factor does the cam play in performance increase vs the head?
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Old 03-26-2011, 01:15 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Captain Bondo View Post
The point is that a ported 530 will not give up the area under the curve that a 531 will. Stock for stock the 531 makes a little more power. Nobody's arguing that.

But, if you want to build something that is say, sub 400whp (Jon could comment better on what the actual output might be, I'm just guessing), and doesn't necessitate a gnarly cam, a worked 530 will not be a restriction, and will provide better midrange torque than a 531 will. All you are doing going with a 531 is costing yourself midrange. The 531 is only truly a better choice on a wild enough build where the power band and cam choice reflect the stage at which a worked 531 will have ideal port velocities, etc.
Bumped, because it appears people still do not get the point. But, in addition to maybe having better midrange, the LOW range and idle will be more efficient too... Velocity is very important at lower rpm for more complete combustion and torque production. The questionable thing is whether or not the 531's improved chamber design makes up for any of that lost port velocity(and chamber volume is greater than a 530...).

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I guess the availability vs cost would be a factor in choosing a head. If you can't get a nice 531 at a reasonable cost (then work it) use a 530, as you see no real benefit. Is that the point?

531 on the B230FB and FX with a VX3 cam you get 20hp over a B230F. These motors are reasonably available here.
So with these motors and the B230ET what factor does the cam play in performance increase vs the head?
A worked 530 that will perform like a stock 531(better at lower rpm/midrange) may end up costing more than a workable 531. A workable 531 will just be harder to find and have less torque under the lower rpm power curve unless you have a cam and engine setup that is able to take advantage of the high lift flow.

Last edited by klr142; 11-06-2019 at 03:00 PM..
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Old 03-26-2011, 02:40 PM   #95
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I just want to post this up so hopefully it will become internet lore.

We've been doing alot of head stuff and for turbo and NA folks using camshafts under 12.5mm of lift and for that matter stock unported intake manifolds, the 531/405 head is a waste of your time as it won't make more power, especially under the curve.

A well ported/filled 530 will make more power than a 531 anyday with a cam under 12.5mm. If going to a bigger cam, you bet, make the jump for the 531/405 heads, but you should also consider one of Nathan Kahler intake manifolds at that point.

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With three sentences, you have managed to stir the pot a bit. haha

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Reading between the lines, I see just what you're saying; and can only quite agree.

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Old 03-26-2011, 03:08 PM   #96
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Pretty sure it's a lot higher than that, but I'm not sure of the magic number.

edit: says 14mm lift, still with stock buckets
http://yhst-26451710505916.stores.ya...vturbocam.html
Yeah, it's somewhere higher. In the cam chart off the home page with the enem cams at 14.5mm lift the note on the right reads 37mm lifters required. The K15 is 12.5mm lift.

http://www.turbobricks.com/resources...ontent=camspec
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:13 AM   #97
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much appreciated kenny.
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:48 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
Yeah, it's somewhere higher. In the cam chart off the home page with the enem cams at 14.5mm lift the note on the right reads 37mm lifters required. The K15 is 12.5mm lift.

http://www.turbobricks.com/resources...ontent=camspec
If your going above 12.5mm of lift its also a good idea to get rid of the stock lifters and go with a shim under setup (in the stock dia)... much more stable for high lift cams.
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:53 AM   #99
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If your going above 12.5mm of lift its also a good idea to get rid of the stock lifters and go with a shim under setup (in the stock dia)... much more stable for high lift cams.
Anyone on here sell the stuff to do that? I'm keen on a doing a nice base circle reduced regrind if its not cost prohibitive.
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Old 03-27-2011, 02:58 AM   #100
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Anyone on here sell the stuff to do that? I'm keen on a doing a nice base circle reduced regrind if its not cost prohibitive.
Jonathan is in the process of doing it to my head. I have a very aggressive cam and I spit a shim because of that. Going to the under shim system is the way to go, and it's lighter. I would call RSI to see if they are ready to ship a kit.
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