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Old 06-17-2020, 12:59 PM   #1
CodeNaked
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Default Ecotec3 LV3 - Direct Injection

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum, but I'm going to jump right into the fire.

Has anyone considered an engine swap utilizing GM's new 4.3L V6 that is derived from the Gen5 LS (L83/L86)? https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lv3/

I'll assume at least a few are poised and ready to tell me that is a stupid idea, I should just use an LS, I can get more power for less money, etc. Those statements may certainly be valid, but I'm interested in what other thoughts are out there on the subject. ;)

The LV3 is an aluminum block V6 with aluminum heads that is available in GM/Chevy trucks from 2014+. It is small, light, and rated at 285 HP / 305 lb-ft. On paper, it seems to measure up very well against ol' faithful, the LM7. It is, however, direct injection. Now, I do understand the difference between how direct injection and port injection operates. But I do NOT have a great handle on how that relates to the viability of the engine for an engine swap.

Thoughts?
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Old 06-17-2020, 01:57 PM   #2
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Why not go V8....
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Old 06-17-2020, 02:09 PM   #3
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LOL, there it is. I guess all car forums have basically the same dynamics.

When I decided to buy my Volvo 240, I got similar questions from my friends. Why not get a Mustang? Why not get a Nissan 240SX/Silvia? Why not get a Porsche 944? Because I wanted a Volvo 240. And I *think* I want an LV3 in it.

But I do have some actual reasons I can enumerate.
1. My daily driver is a 2015 Chevrolet SS with manual transmission and a 430 HP LS3. It has more than enough power/weight for my purposes. I don't want or need something that can run it down.
2. The LM7 is a very popular choice for engine swaps, and for good reason. But it has been out of production for a dozen years, and before long it will be easier to find a low-mileage LV3 than a low-mileage LM7.
3. As I said, the LV3 performance stacks up very nicely against the LM7 in the stock configuration. And with 2 fewer cylinders, it should be a breeze to fit in the engine bay. And I would be surprised if you didn't save at least 100 pounds.

The only thing I've found about any LV3 swap is this article about a Buick Grand National:
https://engineswapdepot.com/?p=45830

Last edited by CodeNaked; 06-17-2020 at 02:23 PM.. Reason: Reasons
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Old 06-17-2020, 02:22 PM   #4
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If the weight differential is enough, and it sits further back in the engine bay, I don't think this is unreasonable.

As long as you can feed the high pressure pump, I don't really see how this would be a problem.
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Old 06-17-2020, 02:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeNaked View Post
Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum, but I'm going to jump right into the fire.

Has anyone considered an engine swap utilizing GM's new 4.3L V6 that is derived from the Gen5 LS (L83/L86)? https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lv3/

I'll assume at least a few are poised and ready to tell me that is a stupid idea, I should just use an LS, I can get more power for less money, etc. Those statements may certainly be valid, but I'm interested in what other thoughts are out there on the subject. ;)

The LV3 is an aluminum block V6 with aluminum heads that is available in GM/Chevy trucks from 2014+. It is small, light, and rated at 285 HP / 305 lb-ft. On paper, it seems to measure up very well against ol' faithful, the LM7. It is, however, direct injection. Now, I do understand the difference between how direct injection and port injection operates. But I do NOT have a great handle on how that relates to the viability of the engine for an engine swap.

Thoughts?
Sounds good, needs more turbo though.
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Old 06-17-2020, 02:54 PM   #6
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people who are concerned about mileage on LS engines are stuck in the past. These things are good for 600k+ if the truck that was built around them could last that long. I have a 300K mile 6.0L that I'm going to toss into a drift 740 and see how long it lasts hitting that limiter.

So the deal with the new GEN5's is there isn't a whole lot of aftermarket out there for it yet, and whats been made so far is expensive. You're sailing into uncharted territory. Not a bad thing, but be prepared to customize stuff. You can't just buy swap oil pans and stuff. Plan on cutting and welding to make fit. Tuning is another thing, fuel system is some sort of high pressure nightmare. So good luck.
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Old 06-17-2020, 03:07 PM   #7
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check out LS1tech, at least a few gen V (direct injection) swaps happening over there. Your best bet is to get an engine/trans pullout from a vehicle and do the wiring/ECU flash to make it standalone. There are at least a few companies out there who offer standalone harnesses and ECU flash, speartech is the first that comes to mind.

I've had the same exact thought myself. The LV3, while the HP numbers aren't crazy, will have great driveability as the combination of DI and variable valve timing provides a wide, fat torque band. Plus, the added benefit of great MPG's - it bet you'd get upwards of 28+ in something as light as a 240 with that combo. I think the 6l80e will fit in the 240, it probably wouldn't fit in a 900 series as the 4l60e barely fits, but that's a different problem.

So, please do it, and tell the rest of us how awesome it is
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Old 06-17-2020, 03:16 PM   #8
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there's also at least one LFX swap on LS1Tech, i believe a member named aknovaman was doing the wiring/ECU flash to make that one standalone.
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Old 06-17-2020, 04:53 PM   #9
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Thanks guys. I will not even take delivery of my 240 for another 4+ hours. This is not something I'm looking to rush into. Before it's all said and done, I may decide to stick with the tried-and-true LM7 or similar swaps. But I am definitely interested in seeing how the aftermarket responds to the Gen V motors, both the 4.6 V6 and the 5.3 V8.
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Old 06-17-2020, 09:52 PM   #10
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Default Direct injection

You gotta replace the high pressure fuel pipes each time you crack them free.
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Old 06-18-2020, 02:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZVOLV View Post
You gotta replace the high pressure fuel pipes each time you crack them free.

Where is the true american that puts holley's on EVERYTHING ??

But seriously it's quite a nice idea and defiantly something different. You've got my intrest sir
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Old 06-18-2020, 02:37 AM   #12
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Yeah put holley on it
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Old 06-18-2020, 01:30 PM   #13
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A growing trend seems to be DI deletes so that you can basically run normal injectors and tune it like anything else. However, it's only going to be a couple years (maybe it already is) before this sort of hotrodding becomes archaic and stupid. I'm pretty sure Holly supports high pressure injection. It's a lot more complicated, but the tuning can be so much more precise with the new stuff. To me doing away with it is about the same as putting a carb on an LS.

I appreciate the new technology for what it is, but that's why I don't want to modify it. Engine management has gone way above my head while the old junk has a lot easy opportunities for improvement. I'll enjoy watching somebody smarter and more determined than myself to follow through though!
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Old 06-18-2020, 02:20 PM   #14
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Direct injection also has problems with heavy carbon buildup on the intake valves: no fuel/air mixture going over the intake valve to clean it.


It makes good power and fuel economy.

I'd rock it.
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Old 06-18-2020, 02:34 PM   #15
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If i had the option of DI, I would run that for sure. It goes a long way to reducing detonation.
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Old 06-21-2020, 02:26 PM   #16
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If you are prepared to transplant all the mechanical bits and the ECU and run a stock engine tune, tuning should not be an issue. The fuel plumbing parts associated with a direct injection engine will definitely be more of a challenge in terms of clean execution than the relatively simple plumbing associated with a port injection engine. Since engine management is so much tied to transmission management these days, you would want to figure out whether the engine transplant means that the transmission has to come with it. That could complicate things.

If you think you want to 'performance fiddle' with the engine, I would not go there. Port injection engines are all pretty similar in their basic fuel management strategies with minor variations associated with control of the valve train and EGR strategies. DI engines definitely not so similar. There are less complex DI engines and DI engines that run exceedingly complex fuel management strategies switching to various fuel maps depending on the operating conditions of the engine. And you have the interesting variants which have mixed port and direct injection (some Fords, Toyotas, Audis). You would really have to know the engine management system and the combustion chamber design inside and out before screwing around with that stuff.

Zvolv mentioned intake valve contamination issues with DI. That definitely was an issue for BMW and some other European manufacturers who were early adopters of DI. Just Google BMW and walnut blasting. It does not seem to be such an obvious problem anymore. The mixed port / DI engines may be part of the valve cleaning strategy and I think some engines have completely deleted the external EGR mechanism in favor of phasing the cams to allow dilution of the intake charge with exhaust gasses under the conditions when you need EGR dilution. I think that some of the later Honda K engines have this strategy. I would search around to see if early versions of the LV3 suffered from this problem or whether GM was a late enough adopter that they were able to see the emerging problem and devise or copy somebody else's control strategy to avoid the problem.
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Old 06-21-2020, 02:37 PM   #17
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We recommend routine "fuel induction" services on direct injection engines. We use a tool that mists a cleaning solution into the throttle body and cleans intake valve deposits.

I've heard of the BMW walnut media blasting routine.

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Old 06-21-2020, 04:20 PM   #18
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Just do it. Who gives a **** on what people think of the engine? Just put it in the car. There so many great engines out there now. Realize that it’s going to be expensive no matter what power plant goes under the hood. Find one in the best shape and do it.
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:56 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
If i had the option of DI, I would run that for sure. It goes a long way to reducing detonation.
It definitely does something for emissions and low speed burn, but I think combustion chamber shape has more to do with detonation control and emissions than the DI.
I think Subaru/Toyota had the best idea running DI for low speed, and adding EFI fuel at higher load/rpm. I haven't heard of BRZs having issues.
They also have some crazy combustion chambers, so they can run a very high compression ratio.

Quote:
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We recommend routine "fuel induction" services on direct injection engines. We use a tool that mists a cleaning solution into the throttle body and cleans intake valve deposits.

I've heard of the BMW walnut media blasting routine.
Yeah, it's a problem. Then again, BMW was using techron at services in the mid 80s when I worked at a Ford/BMW dealer.



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Just do it. Who gives a **** on what people think of the engine? Just put it in the car. There so many great engines out there now. Realize that it’s going to be expensive no matter what power plant goes under the hood. Find one in the best shape and do it.
Yep. If it makes you happy, do it. I'm a fan of 4.3s anyway, despite the theory that 60 degree is the best separation angle for v6s.
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Old 06-22-2020, 11:26 AM   #20
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I have owned 2 DI vehicles, 1 currently, and I can attest that the intake valve deposits are a symptom of a driver who putt putts around. I make sure to give it the beans at least once a tank and never have any issues. Both the Ecoboost and the Honda would/do blow a big black cloud of burning carbon the first time you run it out in a while.

DI is bad ass, gets 365hp/420tq on 87 on a 3.5l V6... and 100hp on a tune alone.

Pretty wicked tech, can't wait til its accessible to the junkyard dawgs like us.
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Old 06-22-2020, 12:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
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DI is bad ass, gets 365hp/420tq on 87 on a 3.5l V6... and 100hp on a tune alone.
And 640hp from the GT version of that engine, still 3.5L, at only around 10 psi boost...

Referring to the racing version of the GT, not the production road car, although they ended up at a pretty similar output on the road car.
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Old 06-22-2020, 12:59 PM   #22
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I guess my big question now is, are we sure it will clear the hood? It's conceivable that the new tech makes the Gen V truck engines a little taller than the outgoing models. I haven't had any luck finding actual dimensions yet.

To hijack my own thread, does anyone know of a 240 running Ford's 2.3L Ecoboost?
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Old 06-23-2020, 11:39 AM   #23
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Expect to have to do some serious software hacking. Immobilizer, stabilitrack, etc. Good luck.
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Old 06-23-2020, 01:34 PM   #24
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I believe you could buy a 2.3 Eco boost, with "stand alone" from ford racing. This was a couple of years ago. It was designed to be swapped into other cars.

Edit- The PCM directly from Ford as a stand alone. Not bad deal since it will probably run like factory once plugged in.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6017-23T

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Old 06-23-2020, 02:15 PM   #25
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There are also engine and trans controllers (8 speed goodness) for LS. Hopefully they will expand to offer a V6 one.
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