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driveline vibration t5 swapped 7/9xx 1pc driveline

Supershafts said:
ok i'll take a look
Click to expand...

Here's a pic of the rear end at full drop with the 1pc driveline resting on the unibody driveline loup.

http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr191/Magnumte/Volvo/Goldie/T5 Swap/Photo396.jpg
Photo396.jpg


you can see that it's about 2" lower than the driveline can travel. Not really an issue for me since I'm only planning on doing tarmac events, and loosing 3" or so of full droup travel isn't that much of a loss. I run a seatbelt limit strap. to keep it up.
I'm not seeing any issues with the compression travel. I added the 1" lift on the bump stops, but changed cut off about 2" of the actual rubber stop, because I still had driveline clearance.

I'm able to do 120mph in 4th at 6000rpm, there are a couple of tracks that I may get up to as much as 130mph in the straights. I hope that's still within the safety margin.

Going to be a couple of weeks before I can get my trans back in and all aligned with the driveline. I'm working 6 nights of graveyard in a row this week, and continuing the GY shift through April.

Zombie Toby isn't supposed to play with power tools or heavy equipment at home... it's ok at work though.
 
Bummer on the heavy equipment! have you check bellhousing alignment?
 
Magnum TE said:
edit: driveline length is 54.5" from the center of the U-joints, he told me that 75% critical speed should be about 4000rpm

The balance machine they use goes up to 4000rpm. I didn't get a model number. It does not however accommodate the slip yoke, so it's just the driveline side of the front u-joint, in the rear the pinion flange is left on the driveline.

The guy told me that there was a little bit of buzz at 4k so he put a new weld yoke on the front. With the new yoke he was able to reduce the balance weight by half so that could be it.

I saw it run in the machine, and it was really freaking smooth, but the guy tells me that it was pretty smooth before so meh.

I'm also trying a different slip yoke.
Click to expand...

==========================

Can you hear a low "booming" sound in the car when the vibration is apparent? If the vibration is at driveshaft rpm (not tire rpm) there usually is. A vibration analyzer or one of those reed tachometers is useful to identify the frequency/rpm of a vibration and select repairs to fix what's really broke.
http://jandngarden.com/products-page/accessories/genuine-briggs-stratton-19200-tachometer/

Do each of the U-joints pivot VERY freely in both directions? If the caps are pushed in they will bind. Binding u-joints will try to toss the trans or diff back and forth or up and down once-per-rev, much like unbalance. The solution is usually to carefully strike the welded yoke (not tube) in each direction with a copper or lead hammer to use the inertia of the tube to push the caps outward. In extreme cases the snap rings must be ground a few thousandths thinner to allow the caps to move outward a few thousandths and free the joint.

I'd measure the tube runout at each end an inch or so away from the weld with the DS installed on the car. Also in the middle. First there should be less than 0.010" or so IF the DS was well made >>AND<< the slip yoke and flange are well machined, AND the u-joints are free. Some are not. I'd mark the high spots and record the runout so the next time it goes in a balance machine the tube runout in their setup can be checked. If the runout is not within 0.005 of when installed in the car, the centering provided by their fixturing is bad and/or they need to support the shaft by the yoke when balancing.

Here is a driveshaft in a StewartWarner/ProBal machine.
http://www.pro-bal.com/images/machines/big/pb1000-d.jpg

the left end has its yoke attached and is supported by an overhead clamping roller fixture. The right end is held in a fixture that picks up the u-joint caps. The center support bearing is on its own stanchion. Any stiffness in the u-joint will confuse the balance machine, just as it can "vibrate" the trans or diff.

If your u-joints are free, and the balance shop lacks the tooling, skill, or desire to balance the shaft assembled, the driveshaft can be balanced on the car using trial and error and a couple of hose clamps. the screw portion of the clamp is the "weight". the high spot you detected with the scribe (if it still exists with smooth, free U-joints) may be the "heavy spot" and the clamp heads should be installed opposite it as a first trial.
 
Nathaninwa said:
Bummer on the heavy equipment! have you check bellhousing alignment?
Click to expand...

Yeah it's all self imposed- it's not a good idea to go climb under a car and do work at 7am after a 10hr grave shift.

Bellhousing alignment?!

Dan Timberlake said:
==========================

Can you hear a low "booming" sound in the car when the vibration is apparent? If the vibration is at driveshaft rpm (not tire rpm) there usually is. A vibration analyzer or one of those reed tachometers is useful to identify the frequency/rpm of a vibration and select repairs to fix what's really broke.
http://jandngarden.com/products-page/accessories/genuine-briggs-stratton-19200-tachometer/

Do each of the U-joints pivot VERY freely in both directions? If the caps are pushed in they will bind. Binding u-joints will try to toss the trans or diff back and forth or up and down once-per-rev, much like unbalance. The solution is usually to carefully strike the welded yoke (not tube) in each direction with a copper or lead hammer to use the inertia of the tube to push the caps outward. In extreme cases the snap rings must be ground a few thousandths thinner to allow the caps to move outward a few thousandths and free the joint.

I'd measure the tube runout at each end an inch or so away from the weld with the DS installed on the car. Also in the middle. First there should be less than 0.010" or so IF the DS was well made >>AND<< the slip yoke and flange are well machined, AND the u-joints are free. Some are not. I'd mark the high spots and record the runout so the next time it goes in a balance machine the tube runout in their setup can be checked. If the runout is not within 0.005 of when installed in the car, the centering provided by their fixturing is bad and/or they need to support the shaft by the yoke when balancing.

Here is a driveshaft in a StewartWarner/ProBal machine.
http://www.pro-bal.com/images/machines/big/pb1000-d.jpg

the left end has its yoke attached and is supported by an overhead clamping roller fixture. The right end is held in a fixture that picks up the u-joint caps. The center support bearing is on its own stanchion. Any stiffness in the u-joint will confuse the balance machine, just as it can "vibrate" the trans or diff.

If your u-joints are free, and the balance shop lacks the tooling, skill, or desire to balance the shaft assembled, the driveshaft can be balanced on the car using trial and error and a couple of hose clamps. the screw portion of the clamp is the "weight". the high spot you detected with the scribe (if it still exists with smooth, free U-joints) may be the "heavy spot" and the clamp heads should be installed opposite it as a first trial.
Click to expand...


The u-joints all move freely, I saw the guy do the taping procedure you mentioned when he was putting the slip yoke back on. He also moved them all around after tapping them, I assume to check for binding.

With the new weld yoke he was able to cut the balance weight needed at the front of the shaft in half, so that's a good sign. (I think)

It felt super smooth on the balancer, I put my hand on it and there was no vibration at 4k

Tube runout was ~.005" to .007" at 4 locations he measure in the front and about 5thou middle and rear. He seemed to think that was pretty good.

Everything so far has told us that it's a sweet driveline, but then again the last 2x I brought it in he said it was good to go. I guess this one has to be to closer tolerances that they are used to making :roll:
 
That machine dan that is one of the few 500 rpm guesstimate machines out there

This is the machine you want to see your shaft in, other than the upmteen dollar rockwell machine.

axilinea.jpg


axiline.jpg


axilineb.jpg


That machine holds the shaft the same way your car has the shaft installed and uses fixtures to mimic each end as if it's bolted into your car



As for the run out, you want it below .010, i do .005, but i have balanced many a shaft that is more than .010 and there are no further vibrational issues. So saying being beyond .010 is the issue isn't correct.
 
I got the trans installed in the car today, I had to leave for work so I didn't get any fluid in it or a test run.

I'm setting up my pinion pointing down this time and the engine pointing up. I had to add about .5" spacer on the trans mount to accomplish that. This way as the pinion rises under accel load it will level out a bit instead of going more out of level.

What do you guys think of that?

(I can go either way, everything's adjustable)
 
I think I actually understood that. If the driveline is level go 2.5 deg down on the pinion. If the driveline is at a 3deg downward slope, then go 5.5deg down at the pinion and the opposite at the engine.

I'm measuring the engine angle at the cam gear, ala Nathan's advice. That's been way easier than trying to get the angle finder on the u-joint flat and square.

Thanks for you help supershaft, what's your name bud?
 
Supershafts said:
Go 2.5 degrees off the shaft, if the shaft is sloping down 1 degree go 3.5 below that , ultimately you want 0.0 under load for the least losses
Click to expand...

His car has spherical bearings on the torque rods which control the pinion angle so there isn't going to be as much raise under load.
 
Supershafts said:
measure it on the shaft and on the comp flange at the diff, you want to try and get it so that underload depending on how much the diff may move it's at 0.0 degrees, Marty
Click to expand...

so since I've got a solid rear end setup I could setup 1 - 0.5deg or u-joint working angle?

right now I've measured the engine at 0deg, the driveline is at 2deg downward angle as it goes rearward and the pinion is at 0deg.

I'm about to try it out, just got to put fluid in the trans.
 
still huge vibration right at 65-7mph :-/

moved things around to 1.5 deg down at engine, 2deg down on driveline and 1.5deg up at pinion, that made things worse.

I guess I should start putting the hose clamps on?
 
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Try lessening the angle between the output and pinion. The solid bearings in the suspension don't give like rubber or poly so theres little or pinion angle change on acceleration.
 
parallel is worse set everything at 1 deg, super vibratey

So how can I tell I've got a compound angle going? Not lined up left and right. is there a measurement I can take at the U joint because I can't seem to get any real accurate measurements off the frame.
 
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ok 1st only measure at the shaft and each end, if the motor/trans is 0 then you want 0 at the diff.

If you want to check if you're at center measure from a straight rail running down the side like a frame rail or body pinch to center of shaft at the front and do the same at the rear this will let you know if the shaft has another angle other than up/down.

So put those angles back where it was best then take the slip yoke mark it to the shaft and now remove it and reinstall it on the shaft opposite of how you marked it and see what happens
 
All my pinch welds are bent up from poor usage of a floor jack when I was learning how to work on the car. I've tried to straighten them up, but still there's going to be at least 1/4" of error in any measurement off them.

I'm going to try to measure off the U-joint caps, down the length of the driveline to a fixed point on the driveline. If it's offset one side of the driveline to the u-joint should be shorter.

I'll take it back to the driveline shop and ask them to swap the slip yoke around, I don't have a press to remove the u-joints.

Pics will show up in my gallery:
http://s483.photobucket.com/albums/rr191/Magnumte/Volvo/Goldie/T5 Swap/

This was the last Video I shot: Operation Log-Jammin in full effect.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WbNq1ukdHlU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://youtu.be/tr-SoIPSsuk
http://youtu.be/kAGZ3kaeqwg



(yeah 3:21 is me)
 
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