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Old 09-05-2019, 02:13 PM   #801
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I was afraid youíd say that. Itís weird how many manifolds I see with a wastegate inlet completely perpendicular to the flow at the collector. Seems like my setup should be at least as good as that.
True - but with your long bent tube between the turbine housing and wastegate inlet, you've got more restriction between the main exhaust flow path and the wastegate valve.

The wastegate is effectively acting much smaller than its physical diameter due to the 90 deg take-off angle and the long bent intermediate tube. If you can't improve that stuff due to packaging constraints, your other option would be up-sizing to a larger wastegate valve to gain back the lost flow capacity.

At some point your intermediate tube leading up to the wastegate will choke however, and it won't matter how large you go on the valve itself - the system won't have any reserve flow capacity. You could estimate that based on the flow area of your intermediate tube compared with the full open (cylindrical) flow area between the valve and seat. Both of those values need to be reduced by some factor to account for the bend restriction and internal restriction in the wastegate housing, but at least that would give you an idea of whether the tube or the valve will reach choke first.
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:55 PM   #802
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True - but with your long bent tube between the turbine housing and wastegate inlet, you've got more restriction between the main exhaust flow path and the wastegate valve.

The wastegate is effectively acting much smaller than its physical diameter due to the 90 deg take-off angle and the long bent intermediate tube. If you can't improve that stuff due to packaging constraints, your other option would be up-sizing to a larger wastegate valve to gain back the lost flow capacity.

At some point your intermediate tube leading up to the wastegate will choke however, and it won't matter how large you go on the valve itself - the system won't have any reserve flow capacity. You could estimate that based on the flow area of your intermediate tube compared with the full open (cylindrical) flow area between the valve and seat. Both of those values need to be reduced by some factor to account for the bend restriction and internal restriction in the wastegate housing, but at least that would give you an idea of whether the tube or the valve will reach choke first.
I wondered if the distance to the valve affected flow capacity. Interesting. Because itís easy, Iím going to make a blanking plug for the wastegate to DP flange, and try a screamer pipe set up. Just to rule out the DP end being the issue.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:09 PM   #803
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Well, that was short lived. I was out with several cars this morning, having a good old time on some freshly paved mountain roads. The car was running great, even with the boost turned down to around 15-17 psi. I noticed 220 on the coolant gauge, going downhill on a cool morning.

Turns out I had no coolant left, and a blown head gasket. I haven’t pulled the head, but the coolant smells like exhaust and the oil looks like heavy whipping cream. My plan is to order head studs and a gasket set and try again. My only real concern is contaminated oil affecting my bearings. A friend recommended sending my oil out to be analyzed for bearing material. Might be worth it.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:38 PM   #804
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That sucks. Hopefully the bottom end is still fine.
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:05 PM   #805
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Well, that was short lived. I was out with several cars this morning, having a good old time on some freshly paved mountain roads. The car was running great, even with the boost turned down to around 15-17 psi. I noticed 220 on the coolant gauge, going downhill on a cool morning.

Turns out I had no coolant left, and a blown head gasket. I havenít pulled the head, but the coolant smells like exhaust and the oil looks like heavy whipping cream. My plan is to order head studs and a gasket set and try again. My only real concern is contaminated oil affecting my bearings. A friend recommended sending my oil out to be analyzed for bearing material. Might be worth it.
Probably kicked the headgasket on number 4. You should be fine. You still running 2.4? May want to pull a little bit of timing at peak torque.
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:30 PM   #806
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Probably kicked the headgasket on number 4. You should be fine. You still running 2.4? May want to pull a little bit of timing at peak torque.
Yeah, still LH 2.4. Iím over it though. Hoping I can get it going on MS this winter.
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:46 PM   #807
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Ahhh gotcha. Ms3x?
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:57 PM   #808
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Ahhh gotcha. Ms3x?
Probably just micro. I just canít justify the extra expense, especially with the house and baby.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:18 PM   #809
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I'm telling ya Tyler, get it running, lower the boost, and get your car up here. We tweaked Ryan's in about a half hour, made some big progress. The fuel and spark tunes you've got are FAR from ideal, still far more conservative than some that I've checked out as well. We've got a lot left to play with for power, driveability, and reliability.
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Old 09-12-2019, 08:33 PM   #810
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I pulled the head today. The head gasket didn't have any catastrophic failures to the firing rings. There were a few weird areas around the coolant jackets on cylinder 3, so I'm blaming those for the failure.

This head is a SCP 405, so I was thinking that I might have cracked the head. Based on cracked heads I've seen, this one looks ok. It also had the coolant passages welded to reinforce them, so the head gasket didn't fail there.

I also had a quick look at each piston's height in the deck, and was (not really) surprised to see huge variation. These are 1,2,3, and 4:









So now I'm wondering what to do. I could put a new head gasket on this engine, and keep running it at low boost while I take my time to build a nice B230. I don't love the idea of rolling the dice with two bent rods, even just at low boost. But it would buy me some time.

Or I could just pull the motor now and put some pistons and rods from Yoshifab in there. The timing for that plan is pretty terrible, but it would be done and I could move on.

EDIT: I'm now realizing that the Yoshi rods are for a B230, and my B23 has bigger rod journals. That complicates things.

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Old 09-13-2019, 01:07 AM   #811
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Probably just micro. I just canít justify the extra expense, especially with the house and baby.
take a look at the maxxecu mini...its a fair contender to the micro box
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Old 09-13-2019, 12:46 PM   #812
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It's not going to break. I drove my redblock with 3 bent rods for years with no issues. Just run it and get another long block situated for it. The link ecus are pretty cool as well. My friend is a dealer for them, so lmk if you want one of those!
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Old 09-13-2019, 12:53 PM   #813
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It's not going to break. I drove my redblock with 3 bent rods for years with no issues. Just run it and get another long block situated for it. The link ecus are pretty cool as well. My friend is a dealer for them, so lmk if you want one of those!
Ha, thatís funny. Just last night, Ryan told me about how you made decent power in bent rods. Thatís all I needed to hear. Iíll throw the head gasket on this one and find a b230 to build up.

Iíve been considering Link. Let me look more closely at the options and Iíll let you know what looks good. Thanks!
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Old 09-13-2019, 12:59 PM   #814
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Ha, that’s funny. Just last night, Ryan told me about how you made decent power in bent rods. That’s all I needed to hear. I’ll throw the head gasket on this one and find a b230 to build up.

I’ve been considering Link. Let me look more closely at the options and I’ll let you know what looks good. Thanks!
Karl Buchka has a complete 16V engine with Link and wiring harness for sale in the classifieds - that might be the most expedient option!

Edit - here it is: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=349171
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Old 09-13-2019, 01:20 PM   #815
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Karl Buchka has a complete 16V engine with Link and wiring harness for sale in the classifieds - that might be the most expedient option!

Edit - here it is: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=349171
That thought crossed my mind, but itís way out of the budget. Plus, I donít want to deal with jamming a 16v into a 142.
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Old 09-13-2019, 02:22 PM   #816
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That thought crossed my mind, but itís way out of the budget. Plus, I donít want to deal with jamming a 16v into a 142.
Fair enough; I'm sure there'd be some unique challenges jamming that into your engine bay.

Price-wise though... wouldn't it be more than $3k to build up a nice B230 (that flows as well as a 16V) plus the cost of an ECU, wiring harness, sensors, ignition components, fuel system, etc etc? I'm not trying to goad you - genuinely interested in the details if you have a plan that will be better, measured by performance per dollar.
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Old 09-13-2019, 02:28 PM   #817
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Fair enough; I'm sure there'd be some unique challenges jamming that into your engine bay.

Price-wise though... wouldn't it be more than $3k to build up a nice B230 (that flows as well as a 16V) plus the cost of an ECU, wiring harness, sensors, ignition components, fuel system, etc etc? I'm not trying to goad you - genuinely interested in the details if you have a plan that will be better, measured by performance per dollar.
I wouldn’t even try to make an 8v flow like a 16. Honestly, the way my engine was running for the last few weeks has given me faith that an 8v could be plenty for this car. I just need to do it properly so it doesn’t eat itself. I’m thinking about a junkyard late b230 block, roads and pistons, and whatever ECU I can afford after that. Maybe it’s just a $300 Micro, who knows. That b234 is a screaming deal, but I can’t justify a big chunk of money all at once like that. Plus, 10:1 isn’t exactly ideal for boost.

All that said, I just found a massive crack on the number 2 cylinder wall. So, the b23 is officially dead.


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Old 09-13-2019, 02:32 PM   #818
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I wouldnít even try to make an 8v flow like a 16. Honestly, the way my engine was running for the last few weeks has given me faith that an 8v could be plenty for this car. I just need to do it properly so it doesnít eat itself. Iím thinking about a junkyard late b230 block, roads and pistons, and whatever ECU I can afford after that. Maybe itís just a $300 Micro, who knows. That b234 is a screaming deal, but I canít justify a big chunk of money all at once like that. Plus, 10:1 isnít exactly ideal for boost.

All that said, I just found a massive crack on the number 2 cylinder wall. So, the b23 is officially dead.

Makes sense; thanks for explaining. That blows goats about the cracked cylinder! I have a good used B21F shortblock I could donate to the cause if it would help. It's down here in smog city though.
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Old 09-13-2019, 02:37 PM   #819
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Dangit man, just saw the pic from Ryan on the crack, that's kinda surprising given where it's at. Definitely time to get a more solid bottom end, spend some coin on getting a proper tune, then rock it. We've done a lot with not much time on 2.4, but it's so much easier to do it real time. Next time Ryan's down your way in Betty, see how it does now.
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:38 PM   #820
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Dangit man, just saw the pic from Ryan on the crack, that's kinda surprising given where it's at. Definitely time to get a more solid bottom end, spend some coin on getting a proper tune, then rock it. We've done a lot with not much time on 2.4, but it's so much easier to do it real time. Next time Ryan's down your way in Betty, see how it does now.
Iím sure Ryanís car rips. It was quick before you guys dialed in the tune. With this set back, itíll be a while before I decide on an ECU. But really, itís just about me having the control over things I canít control with LH. Sure, I could get an Ostrich and try to get up to speed like you and Ryan are doing, but if Iím going to put the energy into learning something, I want it to be a full stand alone with all the capabilities.
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Old 09-14-2019, 09:17 PM   #821
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Completely understandable. I was set to go and stay MS on the wagon until we cracked into LH and made some big strides. It's really impressive how much you can gain by tuning yourself instead of relying on box tunes.
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:48 PM   #822
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Well, I've made the decision to do a 16 valve. You may have already seen this, but I'm selling my 8v top end set up. Perfect for bolting in a B230 to your 140. Would probably work on a 122 or 1800 with the motor upright.



For Sale link: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=351424
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Old 09-24-2019, 11:23 PM   #823
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What causes cylinders to crack like that?
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Old 09-24-2019, 11:46 PM   #824
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What causes cylinders to crack like that?
Probably core shift and a less than ideal tune.
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Old 09-24-2019, 11:48 PM   #825
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Wow. So, sonic check cylinders? Crazy.
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