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Old 04-26-2019, 02:43 PM   #51
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If you switch to speed density/megasquirt you don't need a maf at all.
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:38 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Cwazywazy View Post
Can't you just put the MAF after the turbos or does that not work with LH?
That works quite well actually. Ran it for 6 months without an issue.
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Old 05-03-2019, 12:40 PM   #53
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Interesting, moving the MAF(s) would open up some options and allow me to get them away from the turbo manifold. Thanks for the tip!

My current plan was to first get the base map worked out on the car with the itb's (in an airbox) whilst also moving on with the turbo stuff on the engine stand. With a blow trough setup I could also keep the same wiring then.

After that I was planning to put the new engine in, and run it in without the turbo's after which I can start to add all of the complex bits for the TT setup and make it work. And then slowly increase the boost until I am where I wish to be power wise.

Sorry for the lack of actual updates for now, with the current study load I can only get to benchracing an a little progress each week

Oh and additionally, I finally got my eeprom programmer and eeproms, so soon I'll be trying to burn a couple of chips
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:41 PM   #54
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Default China intercoolers, put the head on, and got myself into 16v trouble

Finally some more progress on both the engine and the car itself, with some late nights and little tasks during quick study breaks

The first hurdle was cleared by drilling out the old oil pump drive gear, and installing a new one, with the installer made by a friend. These were only available from Volvo Penta, so I took the liberty of getting 2 at once for possible future projects.


The next hurdle, the intermediate shaft bearings was also cleared. I covered the new bearings in a good inside coating of vaseline top prevent gaulling of the surface, and used a m20 threaded rod to pull in the bearings nice and straight, finally they are in perfect


Youtube video for the fit:p


I also put in the rear oil seal in one go, so much win!


A few days later I spent a day porting, polishing and reassembling the oil pump, all should be well.













Moving back to the engine itself, I got the head installed with the 12.9 grade head bolts, and proceeded to spend ages to get the valve shims in spec (6 attempts required for perfection):p











With the valve clearance set, I proceeded to applying anaerobic sealant to the cam end caps and put in the rear and front cam seal, since I'll be going wasted spark with this setup.






The large intercoolers I ordered also arrived at the post office, hopefully they'll fit in the front with my measurements.


With all except the oil pan sorted, I proceeded to time the motor on the stand.


And discovered an issue with my plan to use a 24mm wide timing belt.


After a little read and contact with KGtimmning, I went on the lookout for 16v cam gears, which escalated into me buying a set of PZ 16v cams, the roller and belt for a 16v conversion for Strettman. Who I ended up helping to buy a very clean orange 242 which was local to me, pretty cool coincidence.


The crankshaft gear had a little damage on the key, which I managed to restore with a weld bead and a file to an acceptable result.


With this the issue was partly solved, more updates on getting a fitting timing cover and tensioner later.

Proceeding with a night of playing around with the welder and grinder I also managed to create v2 of half of the turbo manifold, which after a test fit on the car still required some adjustments, since my initial placement for turbo #2 was in the frame rail. Stupid mistake, but I modeled it without the car in winter in the driveway to check, so it was to be expected.


I'll soon be getting test fitting v2.5 to continue with the top manifold for turbo #2 (fitment will be different, but this should give an idea of the interfering framerail

Last edited by Swedbrick; 11-19-2019 at 08:40 AM.. Reason: Fixed all images by moving over to imgur
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:47 PM   #55
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Backwards? Black side faces out, pretty sure..
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:16 PM   #56
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You may have to re-engineer your coolant transfer tube with that manifold.
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My knob has a big chunk of steel on it
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:54 PM   #57
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Backwards? Black side faces out, pretty sure..
Hmm, probably then, seemed the most logical at the time, but rubber on the oil side is maybe less smart. I'll change it out by the time I've gone through run in and am ready to put my K-cam in Thanks!


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You may have to re-engineer your coolant transfer tube with that manifold.
Yes I already noticed indeed, with a little adjustment it should work however, I'm more concerned as to the turbo not hitting my strut towers
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:18 PM   #58
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Hi
Catching up with this thread & thought I would relay my own experiences in the manifold building area. Probably too late now as I bet you've finished the manifold but maybe useful to someone doing it for the first time.
I used the same weld elbows & a spare engine on a stand. Like you I put the water pump on but not the pipe that runs to the back. I managed to massage mine with a hammer but have since noticed it has not done the little rubber gasket any favours.
Other things I did not think of in my haste to get it done & see if it would fit were....
1. access to the spark plugs (got lucky on that one)
2. Seeing if I could get to the nuts/bolts on the turbo flange. ( no way!)
3. Seeing if I could get to the nuts on the manifold flange. (again lucky)
4. Not taking account of the length of the head studs in working out how much space I had in the engine bay for the runners.
On this last point I do have a physically big turbo which I now cannot remove from the manifold (without removing from the engine bay). On my 240 there is not enough room to move the turbo/manifold back off the studs to withdraw it from the engine bay. These problems are made worse by being right hand drive & having the brake m/c in the way as well.
I notice that you have a 740 so hopefully will not have these fitment issues.
Looking forward to the next instalment.
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:51 AM   #59
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Hi
Catching up with this thread & thought I would relay my own experiences in the manifold building area. Probably too late now as I bet you've finished the manifold but maybe useful to someone doing it for the first time.
I used the same weld elbows & a spare engine on a stand. Like you I put the water pump on but not the pipe that runs to the back. I managed to massage mine with a hammer but have since noticed it has not done the little rubber gasket any favours.
Other things I did not think of in my haste to get it done & see if it would fit were....
1. access to the spark plugs (got lucky on that one)
2. Seeing if I could get to the nuts/bolts on the turbo flange. ( no way!)
3. Seeing if I could get to the nuts on the manifold flange. (again lucky)
4. Not taking account of the length of the head studs in working out how much space I had in the engine bay for the runners.
On this last point I do have a physically big turbo which I now cannot remove from the manifold (without removing from the engine bay). On my 240 there is not enough room to move the turbo/manifold back off the studs to withdraw it from the engine bay. These problems are made worse by being right hand drive & having the brake m/c in the way as well.
I notice that you have a 740 so hopefully will not have these fitment issues.
Looking forward to the next instalment.
Tim
Hi Tim,

Thanks for the tips, I'll take them into account when I get to part 2 of the manifold, I'm currently working on the chassis some more, so my time (and budget) has been spent there mostly

I did already run into 3/4 of these issues on my previous manifold, so hopefully I won't mess up this time around My biggest fitment issue is probably going to be the hood clearance on the top turbo whilst retaining a nice airflow path to the turbo inlet, I hate the look of a hood scoop, so hopefully I'll manage without. Even in a 7 series, it is going to be tight, especially since I'd like to have the space to eventually upgrade to a 15, 17 or 19T
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:14 AM   #60
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Default They fit, they fit!!

Hi all, today I finally got to the point of checking the fit of the since the previous post many times revised manifold. It has been tack welded for now, and I'll hopefully to get it completely done somewhere next month.

I was very happy to find that they fit! Only slightly fouling the water transfer tube, which should be addressable by moving the bend a bit.


I should also have the space for a downpipe, and I can acces all the bolts somewhat okay, as well as mount the manifold with the turbos attached



The top DP will be close, but Ill rotate the top turbo a bit more to the intake side for some additional clearance which will also require moving the wasted spark setup to the back of the cylinder head. This shouldn't be to big of a problem


I also did a very advanced hood clearance test with gaffers tape and an exhaust bolt and concluded plenty of hood clearance was present. I couldn't be happier (read surprised), this is actually going according to plan


With all this succes I decided to finally get into the calculations for my HP goals, with an aim of 350 crank HP, I set a target boost of about 25psi given the current 135 I guestimate with the K cam and 9.3 comp pistons for the 2.3L with light porting. A bit of guessticalculation and I arrive at about 665 cfm @7krpm, which translates to roughly 0.31 m^3/s and get a pressure ratio of 2.6 for the given boost.

Since we are going to run 2 turbo's I halved that and mapped it onto the turbo map for the 13c, which shows I'm at the edges of sanity, but will probably be able to get into boost at 3.5krpm and will get cooler air as the engine's rpm rise. I also added a second line for about 15 psi of boost to see where I would end up, getting into boost at 2.5krpm.


Since I am by no means a turbo master, this might be all wrong, so please correct me if I made any obvious mistakes Maybe Duder could chime in and bring me up to speed on the compromises I'm making, I'd love to know a bit more before I get to trying to tune this contraption
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:26 PM   #61
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can you still change the spark plugs with that header?
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:48 AM   #62
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can you still change the spark plugs with that header?
Hi, yes possibly I'll need to make a small adapter piece with a shortened socket but it should just about clear. There is about 50mm between the top bend and the header so the clearance should be good
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Old 10-27-2019, 08:35 AM   #63
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Default Welding commences - tips are welcome!

With a little reworking the top turbo is now in perfect alignment, valve cover work will require to take of the compressor housing now, but no biggie:p


The final manifold with numbers added for determining what to weld when, order of operations so to say. Took a while to figure out, but all sections with a line though them will be welded in full first and then attached in the order of numbering hopefully haha


I've been running into annoying porous welds, even though I'm running plenty of gas (7.5L/min not excessive for inside). The issue seems to arise when the weld pool gets red hot and breaks through the other side of the tube (is oxygen able to pass throug?) I am not running a backpurge since my setup is currently not capable and this should be possible like this with mig (yes I know, will boroscope and grind everything inside afterwards:P)


With less heat and extensive cleaning after sandblasting, and messing with the settings for a colder weld pool the results became better but the porosity is still there


The inside looks good however, little cleanup required


I'll be fighting another round tonight where I'll try the Tig on a Mig technique of stacking dimes with pulse welds, and hopefully that will solve my problem which I believe is caused by the heat. Any other theories as to the cause are welcome, since I'll be buying more steel from the looks of it haha
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Old 11-13-2019, 03:22 PM   #64
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Default Welding much better, shiny parts

After a few discussion with friends from the motorsports association I was suggested to look into a little more gas flow, since this has been a known issue with our welder. I also determined not grinding in a V groove and setting the digital mig approriately to 2.1mm worked wonders with the new gas flow at 9-10 L/min. Purty


I also made good use of my new belt sander, to take care of the outside welds, since I'll be heatwraping them and the fitment is already quite close. Since I got good penetration on these thick walled pipes, I'm not to concerned about strength, and with my new settings, the pinholes were completely gone after fixing one spot where I forgot to keep the torch aligned for the post weld gas


I also welded up the first of the flanges, and will be treating these afterwards to some dremel love (also bought a chinese endoscope tooly), I'm really stoked on how the divider turned out!


I'll be welding and porting the sections for the coming weeks to have it hopefully together before the end of the month since the car is going into storage again for winter:p

With the exhaust off, I decided to also pre-invest in some nice new studs and copper coated exhaust nuts, to keep the seal nice and tight

Last edited by Swedbrick; 11-19-2019 at 04:01 AM.. Reason: fixed scaling
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:42 AM   #65
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Default Fixed all my images once more, and little forgotten update

Hi All,

I just fixed all the images by moving them over to imgur instead of photobucket with their scam. So the thread is readable again

I also forgot about posting the oil pump installation here so a quick summary here, I got one of the prototypes that casey made and a more detailed install description can be found on his max effort oil pump thread here:
Oil pump mods: max effort





A pretty cool piece, we'll see how it works out. I've also recieved a sheet of 1.5mm sheet metal to start the timing cover and baffled oil pump build, so updates on that and the mani soon.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:47 AM   #66
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Default A bit of everything

In the last week before the usual winter storage I took a bit to measure up the size for the plenum with the ITB's. It looks like I'll have about 10cm or about 4" for the intake trumpets and the plenum before I run into the brake servo, so I have something to aim for in the design this winter.


Another obstacle with the ITB's was the lengthening of the linkage arms, which were a bit too short with the new spacing.


This gave me an excuse to take up Sander on his offer to make me something on his plasma cutter, by sending over the files of the lengthened arms as an calibration test


I also made up some black ABS replacements for the weak and less than ideal PLA spacers, after fighting my printer for a week, which turned out to be caused by my bowden extruder being assembled with half the screws (I bought it second hand, so at least it was to be expected) They turned out really well so I'm happy!


In the next weeks I moved on to getting small sections welded and ported for the manifold, starting off with TurboMustache 2.0.


Which then got accompanied by the bottom section of the manifold. Progress is a bit slow, but I'm planning on using a flex-hone on all short sections before I fully weld it, to get a nice smooth inside finish. The porting will follow the coming weeks, should be fun

Last edited by Swedbrick; 04-03-2020 at 08:53 AM..
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Old 05-18-2020, 08:44 AM   #67
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With a little more progress on the itb setup (plenum design has also now been decided in cardboard), and a fresh 2 year inspection on the car I'm back on this part of the project.


I took the liberty to also make some test prints for the injector bungs and stole these from my chassis build thread


The plan is to get the engine in the car this summer, na for now, and to run it in for a few thousand km's. That's also where the issue comes in, project twin turbo is making less and less sense now the costs of twice the oil/water feeds, the double maf convertor, probably new exhaust housings and the heat shielding is coming in

I could use some constructive feedback, I'm currently in between continuing on (most porting is done just need to get some gas and put in the time) or getting a gt2860 or 19t and running that. This is all being done from my dorm room, on a parking lot with friends, so it's quite a challenge, especially the charge piping on alloy is the greatest obstacle at the moment Any tips from the pro's?
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:55 AM   #68
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You already spent a lot of time on it, and are building something unique.
Do you do it for the technical challenge or do you want to drive it as soon as possible?

Charge piping: I used 2.5 inch steel exhaust pipe for this and mig welded.
Make a y-piece on the intake side and run a single 012 MAF.
As oil drain I have previously used 20mm mig welded steel pipe to stock drain location. Build a steel y and a flexible hose for second turbo.

I'm 100% certain you've got this.
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Old 05-18-2020, 05:37 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Sjeng View Post
You already spent a lot of time on it, and are building something unique.
Do you do it for the technical challenge or do you want to drive it as soon as possible?

Charge piping: I used 2.5 inch steel exhaust pipe for this and mig welded.
Make a y-piece on the intake side and run a single 012 MAF.
As oil drain I have previously used 20mm mig welded steel pipe to stock drain location. Build a steel y and a flexible hose for second turbo.

I'm 100% certain you've got this.
Mostly for the challenge of course , I don't mind waiting a bit for the more interesting solution, the biggest problem is probably how great the current setup in the car works, it's fast (compared to what I've driven), reliable and keeps up in the twisty stuff as well. With the bigger tire and wheel package I'm intending on fitting, I'll probably start missing the power, but right now it feels like a shame to ruin a sorted car, given that I only get to have one to rip around in being a student

The charge piping out of steel has also crossed my mind, but I wasn't sure how well it would hold up, but if it worked for you I'm most definitely willing to try, I could also try after getting those to work to convince a fabricator to make them in alloy maybe. As for the MAF, my brother has several -012's so that's a good option for now probably, although having two for the split system would be the cool bit:p

Do you have some pictures of your fabricobbled oil drain for inspiration, did you use some sort of power steering hose or heater hose, or just straight metal without leaks? I looked into the AN line stuff, and yeah, the dash 10 stuff is no fun

I also had a look at these for the water/oil feed, which seemed like a budget option quite similar to oem, with some suitable hoses, although having rubber in the oil feed would probably be iffy next to a hot exhaust manifold? Maybe making my own hardlines would be an option, although fitment would have to be spot on, and the engine would be best if kept on a stand for the creation of these.
https://www.filterservice-twente.nl/index.php?id=951
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Old 05-19-2020, 04:09 PM   #70
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fwiw, I had a hydraulic hose crimped by this company: https://www.hytec-hydraulik.de/hydra...h/metrisch.php
Very rugged stuff, though select one of the thinner/lower pressure rated hoses if you want hose that is actually flexible. Hose I used was just for a straight section. In use for 10 year now and never ever had to take a look at the oil drain in that time.
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:41 AM   #71
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fwiw, I had a hydraulic hose crimped by this company: https://www.hytec-hydraulik.de/hydra...h/metrisch.php
Cool, thank you for the link, I'll look into them, I previously got a power steering hose made to spec locally which failed quickly, so I might get it made there as well then

I took the time last night to get some motivation going, and ground down the locating tab on the current turbine housings for some clocking, since the current charge piping locations would lead to a headace.


This should also allow equal header lengths and a bigger radius on the exhaust side. I'll order some new gas and get it tested after porting the final bits over the weekend (most gas is currently on backorder, at least for the throwaway bottles due to corona)



I'm also starting to reconsider the quality of my current exhaust housings, which I patched years ago to gain some experience in cast steel welding, since they appear too far gone. Maybe taking the leap to a 14t or a 15t might be the solution, which should also open up safe 15psi of boost.

#1:


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Old 05-26-2020, 06:10 AM   #72
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Alright, I've done some looking, thinking and budgeting over the weekend and came up with the following list of demands on the turbo's:
- crack free exhaust housing
- still needs to have a small exhaust housing
- cheap
- capable of around 1-1.5 bar of boost

Which has led met to the following option
- add exhaust housings to the 13c's (approx 150 a piece for new ones)
- Sell 13c's and get 14T's instead (roughly the same as exhaust housings)
- Look at maxspeeding turbo's (150 including wastgates etc)

When comparing specs on the relevant side for spool:
13c: 6 cm2 = 0.41 A/R
14t: 7 cm2 = 0.49 A/R
max: 8 cm2 = 0.57 A/R

On the side of boost:
13c: 5-15psi
14t: 5-20psi?
max: 7-22psi

These are the maxspeeding ones, ridiculously cheap for the decent reviews they get, although I'd have to run a external wastegate and bov:
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Old 06-13-2020, 05:08 PM   #73
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Default PCV distractions

Inspired by an old post on here, I decided to take apart an old pin distributor for a pcv port access


A little filing and sawing got me to this point, ready for install


It should sit something like this with a proper fitting instead of this, but man was it hard to get the old seal plug out without proper access haha, a 8mm rod and a hammer ended up doing the trick from the bottom of the block.


I also got this b18 pcv setup from classicswede, to use in the system in combination with the bmw catch can from china I'm planning on using with a 3 port configuration.


With the stack of parts the distributor came in, I also got one of these


For which I've got pretty much everything to run it, which I might experiment with for a bit as a little distraction


As of now the twin turbo's and accessories are for sale, so time will tell if I'll be going with these or will head for the trade up to the china specials for extra fun, I wouldn't mind the upgrade
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Old 06-18-2020, 07:49 AM   #74
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Verry cool project!

Don't know if you have access to a cnc mill but I've got a cad drawing for an manifold using the gsxr 750 throttle body's, Let me know if interested.
I'd like to know the weight of those maxpeedingrods, Any chance you remember their weight?

PS, Grolsch drinken ze alleen aan de verkeerde kant van land
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Old 06-18-2020, 08:35 AM   #75
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Verry cool project!

Don't know if you have access to a cnc mill but I've got a cad drawing for an manifold using the gsxr 750 throttle body's, Let me know if interested.
I'd like to know the weight of those maxpeedingrods, Any chance you remember their weight?

PS, Grolsch drinken ze alleen aan de verkeerde kant van land
Hey Thanks!

I do not currently have access to a cnc, so the plan was cast bends and some lathe work through friends after getting the bits lasercut out of AlMg5, I might try 3d printing in nylon, but with boost alloy has some obvious advantages:p I have the files for everything, so if you need a drawing, no problem

The maxspeedingrods came in at 606 grams each, I recall the 13mm's being around 700 so not much of a difference, except for peace of mind.

Betreft het Grolsh, origineel kom ik ook vanaf de andere kant, maar die twentse indoctrinatie is niet te verhelpen hier aan de utwente
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