home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-17-2019, 11:04 AM   #1
spock345
Board Member
 
spock345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Default Supercharged B230F Ideas

I recently finished an AC delete on my 240 and was wondering what I could possibly do with the void in the engine bay formerly occupied by the compressor.

I landed on the idea of a supercharger. Perhaps something like an Aisin SC12 (MR2), SC14 (Previa), or an Eaton M62 (Mercedes). The SC12 should fit without much hassle in the compressors former location but the SC14 or M62 will most likely require relocating the PS pump to another accessory mount. I could move the alternator to the other side of the engine bay and use that mounting point for a larger supercharger and intercooler piping.

I also found that Aisin makes a small 500cc supercharger that would fit almost exactly where the compressor used to be. If my math is right then it would give me about 6.2 PSI of boost with a 1:2.5 pulley ratio. About one PSI short of a stock B230FT. Although that would be pushing the supercharger to its limits. I can put two of those together but it would get complicated fast. I mostly entertain this option because it seems simple and cheap if the math works even though it is incredibly stupid.

For engine management and fuel I have the LH 2.4 computers from a 740 turbo and orange top injectors from an 850 turbo. I hope to make something in the neighborhood of 150-160HP.

These are just my musings from the last day or so of brainstorming ideas. I am looking at the supercharger instead of a turbocharger because I like the idea of taking the road less traveled and I hate doing exhaust work. Ideally this would be an easy bolt on-bolt off mod when finished.

This is still very much conceptual at this point and I would appreciate some input or criticisms.
__________________
1989 240 NA 5 speed
2012 VW Tiguan 6 speed auto

Last edited by spock345; 10-17-2019 at 11:23 AM..
spock345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 11:12 AM   #2
iHateVolvoPeople
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Midwest
Default

Also take into consideration the parasitic draw of that supercharger. So at 6.2psi you’d likely be around 160bhp, but wouldn’t the parasitic draw bring it back down? I would opt for more boosts personally.

Is your 89 2.4 or 2.2?

I really think I’m the long run, a turbo makes more sense because it’s so easy to do, but if you’re keen on taking the road less traveled then I’d love to see it. There are a handful of SC red blocks on here I think. You’ll have to search to see results.
__________________
Feedback Thread
Current:
93' 244T M47
90' 744 AW70
95' Camry A140E, 246k
99' Camry A140E.
Past (Volvos):
80' 242gt M46
88' 245T M47
92' 945T AW71
94' 945T AW71
90' 745T AW71 (Donor car for the 91)
90' 745 NA sold
93' 945T in burgundy
91' 745 Regina AW701 turbo (traded for 96 Camry wagon)
93' 245 M47



People think Volvos are good cars until they drive cars that are actually good.
iHateVolvoPeople is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 11:24 AM   #3
spock345
Board Member
 
spock345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Default

The car is LH 2.4.

I have to delve a bit deeper to figure out exactly what the parasitic draw would be. The Aisin unit is tiny and probably won't draw a lot of extra power. The Toyota and Eaton unit would likely draw more power from the crank as the output is almost double or triple the tiny Aisin but they also would provide higher boost with a smaller pulley ratio.
spock345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 11:30 AM   #4
Redwood Chair
K-jet For Life
 
Redwood Chair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: - Stock PSI Or Bust -
Default

It'll never spool.
__________________
Raise The Lowered


Image hosted by servimg.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Folks on here don't know a good deal when they see it.
how psi stock cna support?

Redwood Chair is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 11:33 AM   #5
iHateVolvoPeople
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Midwest
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spock345 View Post
The car is LH 2.4.

I have to delve a bit deeper to figure out exactly what the parasitic draw would be. The Aisin unit is tiny and probably won't draw a lot of extra power. The Toyota and Eaton unit would likely draw more power from the crank as the output is almost double or triple the tiny Aisin but they also would provide higher boost with a smaller pulley ratio.
The SC12 came in the 4agze right? I would imagine it might be undersized for a 2.3L.
iHateVolvoPeople is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 11:40 AM   #6
spock345
Board Member
 
spock345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Default

I found a flaw in my math regarding the Aisin 500, it will only do 1-2 PSI. So pretty much diddly squat. I would also be limiting myself a bit with the SC12 but it would work.

The SC14 seems to be more common than the SC12 and would give me 1400cc's per revolution to play with. It originally came on a 2.4L in a Previa. The smaller Eatons that showed up on four cylinder Mercedes are also dirt cheap.
spock345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 11:44 AM   #7
Stiggy Pop
Board Member
 
Stiggy Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Granville, MA
Default

TentShedTrev is the only guy I can think of who has a blown redblock setup that works/is driven hard regularly.
__________________
'79 242
943 pickup
Stiggy Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 11:45 AM   #8
spock345
Board Member
 
spock345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Default

If I go with an eaton M45, M62, or SC14 I could mount it above the alternator and perhaps even re-use some of the intercooler piping from a B230FT.
spock345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 03:11 PM   #9
Sweep
Board Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Peterborough - UK
Default

M62 would be better suited, or even M90 if you want to go a bit silly, not sure if you got them that side of the pond though.
Sweep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 03:32 PM   #10
spock345
Board Member
 
spock345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Default

The M45 and M62 appear on some 90's and early 2000's Mercedes over here.
spock345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 03:43 PM   #11
Sweep
Board Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Peterborough - UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spock345 View Post
The M45 and M62 appear on some 90's and early 2000's Mercedes over here.
Did you get the M90 at all? Also on Mercedes I believe.
Sweep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 03:49 PM   #12
oldschoolvolvo
Board Member
 
oldschoolvolvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default

Lankku also had a supercharged redblock (B21 w/ 16v head)...don't know the specifics, but he can chime in.
__________________
-Mike
1998 V70 T5
1979 242 DL 16v

|Feedback|
oldschoolvolvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 04:09 PM   #13
redblockpowered
Board Member
 
redblockpowered's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Swampscott, MA
Default

We got M62s and M90s on old GM 3800s. Up to 96 should have the M62 and after that for the M90.
__________________
1993 944 B230FT/M90 thread here: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=345277
1991 245 B230FNA/M47 no thread: secret LeMons car technology abounds
1991 245 B230F/M47 no thread: very boring (320k!)
redblockpowered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 04:59 PM   #14
spock345
Board Member
 
spock345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Default

An M62 or M45 is probably what I will go with. Especially given that I can get one for less than $200. The M90 is a bit too much for what I am going for. I can probably fit either pretty easily on either side of the engine. Just would have to get some aluminum bar stock to make a bracket.
spock345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 05:23 PM   #15
Lankku
Board Member
 
Lankku's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Finland
Default

Having a power steering pump with a supercharger needs some measuring and making brackets. Didn't use one in my builds though. Best choice would be installing the supercharger under the intake(if you don't want it seen) and using a power steering pump with a separate reservoir on the bottom. Or go electric.

Even a M90 will fit under the intake but will be much more tighter fit than M62 or M65/M45. I think with that you would have to use an electric power steering.

M65 is a bit on the small side but should be enough for your power goals. It is also the easiest to fit and have room for a power steering pump. I should do some digging what were the pulley ratios. But around 2 in any case. It's already over nine years since I had either of the supercharged 16V cars.

This is what my M62 looked like:


This is the fitment with a B204FT/GT intake:


And here you can see a bit how much space there is under the M62 even with a B234 intake, which gives more space compared to a B204FT/GT intake. But I like to have things somewhat accessible.


M90 is massive and had to modify it some to make it fit. Different snout lengths also add variables. Steel flanges for added weight



Here is a link to a crappy video of the 2.1 16V 245 incar, but at least you'll hear something.

You could also double your troubles and go for a HX40 and M65 with LH2.4.
__________________
444 -55,
242 DL -80 (was 4.6l)sold, 245 -88 "B6284T" sold, 245 -92 B6294,
245 -90 "B6284T"

Last edited by Lankku; 10-17-2019 at 05:28 PM..
Lankku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 06:43 PM   #16
spock345
Board Member
 
spock345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Default

An M45 seems to be the around the same dimensions as the AC compressor I removed, produces 750cc's per revolution, with a 14k rpm redline. So assuming a 6500 rpm redline on the engine I can get up to 13.26 psi of boost with a 2.2:1 pulley. With an M62 I am looking at a ratio of 1.65 to make the same boost but I don't push the supercharger anywhere near its redline.

What do you think of mounting it above the alternator on the exhaust side and using the intercooler and tubing from a 740 or 940? That way I only have to worry about a mount, pulley, and manifolds for the supercharger.
spock345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 10:12 PM   #17
quillc
yv1a.com
 
quillc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kitsap, Wa
Default

There is a member on the board that did a supercharged & turbocharged redblock years ago now very successfully.
__________________
Chris
www.yv1a.com
quillc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2019, 12:20 AM   #18
white855T
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dallas,TX
Default

Heres one: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=129114

An another: tentshredtrev, http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/sh...d.php?t=341241
__________________
Buyer/Seller Feedback

http://turbobricks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301654
white855T is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 03:34 AM   #19
Tentshedtrev
Board Member
 
Tentshedtrev's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Default

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1MoB7yj...=1uz0i7trhxle0
went back to running just a ported m90 this year, with a 2.8" blower pulley and a 6" crank I am seeing almost 20psi. This is really pushing a roots blower past its effective range, I am running a massive air to water intercooler and water/meth just to keep the IATs down. long and short of it is a turbo car at the same boost pressures will be faster all around, there is no escaping the fact that superchargers have drag, and two meshing rotors is an inefficient way of compressing air.
I will say it is a blast to drive, has instant torque similar to a stock 5.0L, and for the time and money invested in it I am more then happy with this fun drift project!
biggest issue I have had is shearing stock crank gears. I went through 4 before I stopped being stupid and got Josh's billet one, between the drive of the supercharger pulley and the extra strain of an rsi cam and springs the stock stuff absolutely is not up to the task
have a listen to that whine tho! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HAFeTf57XcY
__________________
Life is too short to stay redblock..

1990 740 SE, Eaton m90 supercharged b230F drift car
1983 242 turbo t5 whiteblock swap (in progress) (He351, MS3x, WC T5)
1983 244 (on blocks, currently parts storage)
1989 244+t k24 turbo, npr, rsi stage 3, chipped 954 and 207 ezk, and other dodads
1990 245 Mitsubishi 4D56 turbo diesel km132 transmission, water/meth
1983 245 m46 b230f Stahl header Toyota 4age ITBs MS2extra

Last edited by Tentshedtrev; 10-20-2019 at 03:46 AM..
Tentshedtrev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 01:47 AM   #20
Jyromefedx
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Saskatchewan,Canada
Default

I say go for the Previa Supercharger, mainly because that is what I have planning to go onto my B6304s.

Pros:
Self contained oil unit,
Very Compact,

BIGGEST PRO:
It uses an electronically controlled clutch to activate it or idle it.
Meaning
Mad Max Toggle switch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjQA8lqyqfw
Jyromefedx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2019, 01:34 AM   #21
spock345
Board Member
 
spock345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Default

I was going to try to fit an M45 or M62 in there as they are similar in size to an SC14 and cheaper but now that electronic clutch has me tempted. I wonder if I can assemble a clutch mechanism myself.
spock345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2019, 07:44 PM   #22
Dirty Rick
Board Member
 
Dirty Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cornholio, OR
Default

I believe if you want to use an electric clutch you will need the accompanying bypass valving for it to work.
__________________
I don't know who I am when I am somebody else.
Dirty Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:12 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.