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Drove bosses 242 turbo Group A. What a Blast!!!

John why wouldn't those supposed 500 intercooled cars be considered a "evolution"?
I've read all the rules and I don't see why they wouldn't qualify...if they existed.
 
Well, that is a very nice car. I recently acquired one and am satisfied that it is one of the USA spec flat hood intercooled turbo cars. Yes, I know it is not a group a racecar, but it is unusual and not many are left. JVAB- watch your blood pressure, dude.
 
gashog said:
John why wouldn't those supposed 500 intercooled cars be considered a "evolution"?
I've read all the rules and I don't see why they wouldn't qualify...if they existed.
Click to expand...

Do they have the Group A Getrag box with 2.37 first and 1:1 top?

No

Do they have the beautiful intercooler with formed end tanks?
And fiber-glass piping?

No

Do they have the V8 K=jet blow-down fuel distributor?
No?

Aluminum lower control arm?
No

Roll enter compensation?

No

aluminum diff with bolt on axle tubes, and a nice ZF LSD?

No

Dual master w/ adjustable brake bias?

Matter aluminum bolt in roll cage?

No?

Anything?
No

They're just street cars..
This one is a nice clean street car.....
 
MikeSr. said:
Well, that is a very nice car. I recently acquired one and am satisfied that it is one of the USA spec flat hood intercooled turbo cars. Yes, I know it is not a group a racecar, but it is unusual and not many are left. JVAB- watch your blood pressure, dude.
Click to expand...

Blood pressure is fine.. After going thru that time, THAT had the blood pressure up then because hey wrong PN on a part and it would be exclusion--and possible fines...all to downgrade my car for this one WRC i could do before Homologation expried on the model car i was driving..I was the last Saab 96 ever entered in a WRC event--then end of a 30 year run..

This faptasic faptacular internet lore doesn't engender raised blood pressure--seen too much pure BS since that time..More a mixture of pity and disgust..
 
John V said:
Do they have the Group A Getrag box with 2.37 first and 1:1 top?

No

Do they have the beautiful intercooler with formed end tanks?
And fiber-glass piping?

No

Do they have the V8 K=jet blow-down fuel distributor?
No?

Aluminum lower control arm?
No

Roll enter compensation?

No

aluminum diff with bolt on axle tubes, and a nice ZF LSD?

No

Dual master w/ adjustable brake bias?

Matter aluminum bolt in roll cage?

No?

Anything?
No

They're just street cars..
This one is a nice clean street car.....
Click to expand...

I still don't get it.
What you're describing is a fully prepared car.
I thought the point of the supposed "evolution" Volvo was to get an intercooler.

Doesn't matter. I don't really give that much of a ****. Just curious.
 
I believe (and JV or Pat can confirm) but i believe the TL;DR is that FIA required 5000 cars with the base parts (american intercooled 242 flathood) and then 10% (500) "EVO" cars which were only in Europe and those had the 8cyl mercedes k-jet and fiberglass intake pipe thing and came with the group-a wing in the trunk. I have only seen photos and spoken with EVO owners but never seen one in real life.

It has been years since i updated the flathood website. Going back and reading it now just makes me laugh. Its definitely due for some updating and possibly a registry. There was a guy doing a registry with VOCA that had a list. At some point i believe i tried to work with him on something and he wasnt interested.
 
John V said:
Have you ever sat down and read the Appendix J (I think it is---) ?
Click to expand...
I've read everything I could find about the Group A cars, even the boring ass rules.

John V said:
Wasn't your screen name "Group A" or something once?*
Click to expand...
I created another account a few days before I was to buy an actual Group A raced 242. The car was sold out from under me while I was on my way to pick it up after several promises to hold it while I waited for him to get back into town. I was and still am very pissed off about it and if I ever see him in person, I'd likely just beat him to a pulp. You might even recognize his name since you are mister rally. Christian Edstrom.
I continued to use that account for a few(?) years until I forgot the password. I then reverted back to my original user name/account.

John V said:
Really a different view of the whole mythology of the Group A world when you actually are doing a car for actual competition and talk directly with the guys who did the whole Homologation process...in the right language too --get what I'm saying? Like one of the guys rather than just hearing stories 20-30 years later..
You understand?

No I figured you wouldn't.
Click to expand...
I talked at length with Peter Kroeber (RIP) to the point where I would have considered him a friend. I've also talked to Mark Petch and Thomas Lindstrom by email a few times while trying to authenticate Group A cars and stories I was chasing at the time. Then there was the Volvo Group A mailing list that I was lucky enough to be invited into. It was all Group A Owners or Drivers and they shared info, parts and parts for sale occasionally. Not a very active list, but it was never needless chatter. I also used to spend hours talking to John Amundsen who claimed lots of stuff and he definitely knew a lot of little details one would only know if he was there, but some of his stories seem far fetched to me. He actually claimed to be there while the FIA checked the 500 evo cars.

All my knowledge is from reading and talking to people that were there at the time. That I will admit. But I am no teeny bopper making up or spreading stories that I can't back up either.

John V said:
Ever sit in a real 240 group A car? See it go in any kind of real competition? Just curious...:roll:
Click to expand...
Yes, and no, I wasn't lucky enough to see a 240 raced in it's prime. I was 12-14 at that time and though I was racing karts at that age, I had no clue what Group A was.
 
boostdemon said:
I believe (and JV or Pat can confirm) but i believe the TL;DR is that FIA required 5000 cars with the base parts (american intercooled 242 flathood) and then 10% (500) "EVO" cars which were only in Europe and those had the 8cyl mercedes k-jet and fiberglass intake pipe thing and came with the group-a wing in the trunk. I have only seen photos and spoken with EVO owners but never seen one in real life.

It has been years since i updated the flathood website. Going back and reading it now just makes me laugh. Its definitely due for some updating and possibly a registry. There was a guy doing a registry with VOCA that had a list. At some point i believe i tried to work with him on something and he wasnt interested.
Click to expand...

Email Volvo. They're eager to please. Particularly Volvo enthusiast clubs.
It's possible that some of the files MIA under Ford have resurfaced.
Supposedly some were hidden from the shredder.
 
boostdemon said:
I believe (and JV or Pat can confirm) but i believe the TL;DR is that FIA required 5000 cars with the base parts (american intercooled 242 flathood) and then 10% (500) "EVO" cars which were only in Europe and those had the 8cyl mercedes k-jet and fiberglass intake pipe thing and came with the group-a wing in the trunk. I have only seen photos and spoken with EVO owners but never seen one in real life.

It has been years since i updated the flathood website. Going back and reading it now just makes me laugh. Its definitely due for some updating and possibly a registry. There was a guy doing a registry with VOCA that had a list. At some point i believe i tried to work with him on something and he wasnt interested.
Click to expand...
What I don't understand is why they would have american version cars when they were never raced here in the states and all of the Group A Volvos (except 1 private entry) had the RoW front end.

I'd be interested in running/helping with a registry for the flatnose cars.

boostdemon said:
yeah no, none of mine have had that sticker.
Click to expand...
Interesting. Now I want to look at more cars and see if they didn't have the sticker either.
 
gashog said:
Email Volvo. They're eager to please. Particularly Volvo enthusiast clubs.
It's possible that some of the files MIA under Ford have resurfaced.
Supposedly some were hidden from the shredder.
Click to expand...

i've talked to VCNA people a few times, i have quite a few contacts and i can agree that they are always happy to work with enthusiasts. Unfortunately the information Volvo has retained over the years on these cars is not correct as Pat and John are pointing out. The information in that Rolling article was sourced from volvo cars north america at the time of the article... as you will read, it is actually pretty far from what we now believe to be most likely.
 
Tuff240 said:
What I don't understand is why they would have american version cars when they were never raced here in the states and all of the Group A Volvos (except 1 private entry) had the RoW front end.

I'd be interested in running/helping with a registry for the flatnose cars.


Interesting. Now I want to look at more cars and see if they didn't have the sticker either.
Click to expand...

with a grain of salt - I believe i remember someone explaining to me that they had to officially have the cars available for export which is why they dumped them into the american market. I was led to believe we did not get the EVO cars because of EPA restrictions. but maybe it was just convenient to release them last-minute for inspection and then get them in dealerships locally? I dont know.

I'm going to hold you to that. That database would be pretty easy to get going we just need to figure out how you want owners to submit info. I would like to get my old flathood.saliv8.com site tied into TBricks as well as put some more reading material together to clear up some things we now believe to be incorrect.
 
boostdemon said:
I'm going to hold you to that. That database would be pretty easy to get going we just need to figure out how you want owners to submit info. I would like to get my old flathood.saliv8.com site tied into TBricks as well as put some more reading material together to clear up some things we now believe to be incorrect.
Click to expand...
I'm down with that.
Maybe we could get JV to advise or at least review any material before it's posted to the internet also. Though I think his knowledge is more based on the actual Group A cars versus the "flatnose" american street cars.
 
Tuff240 said:
I'm down with that.
Maybe we could get JV to advise or at least review any material before it's posted to the internet also. Though I think his knowledge is more based on the actual Group A cars versus the "flatnose" american street cars.
Click to expand...

Yup, we'll pool as much info as possible and write some new articles. I'd love to get more stuff up on all 3 cars, American, EVO, and actual Group-A race cars.
 
amerbritcan said:
1982 242, 1983 245, 1984 244, 1989 245, 1990 244, and I've never seen that sticker. I've also never seen one on the 50+ 240's of others' that I've seen at meets.
Click to expand...
They switched it to inside the gas door around 89.
Are your cars still original paint?
I've yet to see a repainted car with them put back on. They usually just leave it off.
Could also be a US thing?
 
Does anyone have these papers/forms for the 240's?
I got some catalogs from the guy I bought one of my 140/B20 Competition Service Kits from.

I realize these were not Group A, and the rules change over the years, but it does list 5000 as the minimum production.
One is for the 122s the other is 142s

Just found these interesting.
I don't have a stake in this discussion otherwise :-)









I also like the fact that they refer to someone that drives over a certain speed as a pilot :-)
As in "School of Piloting"...

 
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Tuff240 said:
What I don't understand is why they would have american version cars when they were never raced here in the states and all of the Group A Volvos (except 1 private entry) had the RoW front end.
Click to expand...

Maybe they needed help getting to 5000 cars sold?
 
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