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Old 07-28-2019, 08:07 AM   #426
DET17
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I bought my B&G's from another TB member; he mistakenly ordered a Sedan kit for his wagon.... and the rear end sat much too low. I know when I was shopping there were several folks "listing" them for sale. You might have to buy from Europe and pay the shipping.
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:19 PM   #427
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Default "Got them old turbo 4 cylinder 3" exhaust dronin' blues"



Dats right!

Find here the last correction to the final round of changes..... that didn't turn out as hoped.

In the previous version of my DD, I ran a factory 9 series down pipe & CAT, followed by the TME exhaust that IPD sold all those years ago. Never an ill sound came from the exhaust.... it was pretty sweet sounding for a banger. Well with the last hurrah changes of the 3" DP & high flow 3" CAT, then custom connected to that same TME exhaust, something went (as Jeremy Clarkson says) horribly wrong! When cruising the interstate at 70mph, a GOD Awful droning sound came into the cabin, that was unbearable for an old guy like me. The engine would be around 3100 to 3400 rpm when this nasty droning would occur. I simply couldn't drive this sedan to work each day and endure this punishment.

Scouring the web, it seems there are countless stories of turbo 4 cylinder engines, which post "upgrade" to a 3" exhaust all exhibit this irritating tendency. I found two primary solutions; install some fashion of a Helmholz pipe, or add an exhaust resonator to the single muffler. I chose the latter option....



The VIBRANT stainless bottle type 5" got the nod.... reviews were favorable.

The OE location is best to keep the resonator tucked up and away from harm. Subject OE resonator is 6+ inches in diameter, and mine smaller. I bought a replacement resonator mount that I had to reduce diameter, cut & fit so it would clamp tightly on the VIBRANT. I repurposed the old TME pipe hanger with a cascaded set of Volvo factory rubber hangers:



To get the smaller resonator as low as possible (and to fit the basic TME bend in the stainless in front of the axle) I had I had to offset the factory steel hanger mounts about 20mm. Stripped the OE zinc plating in muriatic acid, then welded and finally primer/painted:




And because anal OCD Engineering behavior, it had to be ~ level as well:



With the resonator now properly supported, I needed to determine how much offset I would need to throw into the stainless pipes to mate up properly with the CAT exit. The solution was staring me right in the face..... "the beauty of this plan is in it's simplicity"....



Using the sacrificial straight pipes determine that I needed about 1 1/4" offset, and that amount would level the resonator with the vehicle body. I confirmed the rockers were at about 8* as I had the sedan supported on 6 ton stands; all pipes were properly cut so the TME muffler and Vibrant resonator also hung at 8*.....




After plenty of measuring & checking, I Metabo free hand cut the 2.5 inch stainless mandrel 180* bend I bought. Wall thickness was barely .055", and I think it was 304 stainless which turned out to be a bitch to weld with my MIG machine. How about this fixturing job to prepare for weld?

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Old 08-20-2019, 07:36 AM   #428
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nice - anxious to 'hear' how it works
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Old 08-20-2019, 09:44 PM   #429
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This was the Helmholz option I considered, but couldn't find the room to fit. Neat and quite old technology to eliminate droning. Articles abound how to calculate the length needed for your particular engine. From what I've read, if you go this route you want to place the resonator as far forward in your exhaust system as possible..... say, right at the down pipe where it planes out below the floorpan.

http://synapseengineering.com/synaps...s/nodrone.html
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:59 PM   #430
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Lots of V8 Mustang guys use the 1/4 wave tubes to cancel out drone. At same rpm, IIRC, the 4 bangers take a tube twice as long which is often problematic.
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:48 AM   #431
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At same rpm, IIRC, the 4 bangers take a tube twice as long which is often problematic.
Another reason for more cylinders

Yes, one article I read was a turbo Subie Outback I think..... the resonator J pipe was quite long.
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:40 AM   #432
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Another reason for more cylinders
I finally just gave in ---- OEM mufflers solved the problem.
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Old 08-23-2019, 10:30 AM   #433
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Can you get an objective measure of how loud the car is? Decibels at 70 mph seems to be the norm in magazines although obviously sound is pretty complex and decibels hardly tell the whole story.
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Old 08-23-2019, 01:53 PM   #434
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Can you get an objective measure of how loud the car is? Decibels at 70 mph seems to be the norm in magazines although obviously sound is pretty complex and decibels hardly tell the whole story.
If I can get an app installed on the old smart phone, I will gather some data.

Driving the interstate at 70 -75 mph the last days, what's left of the drone is directly proportional to throttle opening. Start climbing a grade, and you can hear it raising it's voice again. The resonator has definitely improved it, but the input is still there.

Once I can determine the peak frequency, I'll look again at the Helmholz J tube solution and see what length would be necessary. Of course, welding this thing to the DP isn't practical as you'd never get it out of the vehicle again without the engine removed. If one were to shorten the DP exit point, and lengthen the entry pipe in front of the CAT, that would be the best location IMO.... if the chassis will handle the length needed.
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Old 08-23-2019, 02:09 PM   #435
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I’ve seen them placed all the way at the back of V8 applications. I don’t think where you make the connection is as important as the length being correct to bounce-back a cancelling sound wave.
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Old 08-23-2019, 04:08 PM   #436
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I have an Android phone and used an app simply called Sound Meter. Seemed effective enough and produced results that made sense.
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:36 AM   #437
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Been too busy this week, but here's the rest of the install of the VIBRANT resonator.

Once the pipes were all cut and properly fitted, including my 1.25" offset, I assembled it all in final position and tacked everything in place. Every time I do this type of work, I dream of a car lift in the Swedish underground garage! Here, the resonator tacked up:




While the MIG stainless welds are fully functional (it won't fall apart, good penetration), but they certainly don't provide the visual beauty of a proper TIG weld. I won't zoom in on my MIG welds for the shame of it...... but function is what I'm after here for a DD.




The complete installed resonator tucks up nicely in nearly the stock position. I have retained a slip joint at the CAT exit, and the V band clamp at the CAT entrance makes it all removable.



My original TME remains...... I can't imagine fitting a larger muffler in the rear position; you might gain another couple inches of OAL but that would be it.



With the machine on the concrete, the VIBRANT is tucked up at nearly the height of the fuel tank right behind it. My DP exit hanger is the lowest point of the entire system. Now both the TME and the VIBRANT are level when the vehicle is sitting at ride height...... my original TME install had an odd angle of the exhaust tip which always annoyed me. My Engineering brain is satisfied.

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Old 08-24-2019, 07:18 PM   #438
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Looks loverly
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Old 08-24-2019, 10:42 PM   #439
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Job well done.
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Old 09-29-2019, 06:46 PM   #440
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How does the ride compare with the B&G springs and Konis vs. the IPD springs and Bilsteins vs. stock? I'm planning on a handling upgrade for my car eventually but don't want to compromise its inherent comfiness. The progressive rate springs seem ideal in theory, but of course theory often differs from practice.
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Old 09-29-2019, 08:58 PM   #441
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I'll say that the B&G Progressives with KONI sports are an improvement over my original IPD blue sport springs & the Bilstein HD's. However, this current setup is not as "comfy" as the OEM parts were. I have my front KONIs set at the lightest setting of rebound, and the rears set on the 2nd setting. After driving it several months, I am planning to pull the rear dampers and reset them to the 1st setting for rebound. As much as I like the handling of this setup, the ride is stiffer than I like (for an old guy).

With my 25mm front IPD bar, I'm also tempted to pull the rear wagon bar and run "naked" out back as the 2 series guys do. However I'm not sure the results will be the same for the 7/9 rear suspension with it's asymmetrical subframe and torque rod design.
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Old 09-30-2019, 04:44 PM   #442
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That's very good to know! Having done a (pretty trivial) amount of math and reading on our cars' suspension and stock wheel rates/ride frequencies, I was planning on a setup of B&G springs with the Bilstein HDs and 25mm front sway bar along with new rubber bushings. I do like the adjustability of the Konis, though.
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:40 AM   #443
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Great work as always! Dude, when are we getting some videos of this thing in action!???

Quote:
Originally Posted by DET17 View Post
I'll say that the B&G Progressives with KONI sports are an improvement over my original IPD blue sport springs & the Bilstein HD's. However, this current setup is not as "comfy" as the OEM parts were. I have my front KONIs set at the lightest setting of rebound, and the rears set on the 2nd setting. After driving it several months, I am planning to pull the rear dampers and reset them to the 1st setting for rebound. As much as I like the handling of this setup, the ride is stiffer than I like (for an old guy).

With my 25mm front IPD bar, I'm also tempted to pull the rear wagon bar and run "naked" out back as the 2 series guys do. However I'm not sure the results will be the same for the 7/9 rear suspension with it's asymmetrical subframe and torque rod design.
For a spirited DD, I think fresh, OEM, German-made, gas-charged suspenders and some mild, off the shelf "sport springs" is the way to go. That's what I initially had on my wagon when it was briefly a DD and I thought it was perfect for that role. I do like Konis better than Billys though. Billy HDs for 7/9s are overly harsh, but Koni Sports are ok for a fair weather project car.
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Old 01-02-2020, 06:13 PM   #444
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Do I sniff an extra set of valves a-comin?
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My knob has a big chunk of steel on it
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Old 01-06-2020, 05:43 PM   #445
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Do I sniff an extra set of valves a-comin?
Nope, not in this sedan. It is quickly approaching the FINISH LINE.......

There is however another project, slumbering in my shop, that will have a minimum of 5 cylinders and 20 valves. That is, if I'm able to build it before I die.
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Old 04-27-2020, 02:21 PM   #446
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Oy Vey PhotoBugger, again with the giant pics?



Well the car just got a bath, the weather is LOVELY here in NWGA, and I'll just show off my repaint, new bumpers, fogs. Here's a few more from various angles. I swear that PhotoBugger has changed again, as it would let me alter picture size via display settings.... and now that page is missing. I KNOW, but I don't have the time to move all these damn pics.






More to come. Despite my earlier threats of completion, I'm breaking my word (don't tell the wife) and doing MORE to this sedan. And better yet, I'm going to try and find a way to get this thing down the 1000 ft. track to see if it's as fast as my butt dyno says it is (for a 2.3L 8V).... The 19t is currently set to 16psi, and it's a hoot.

Last edited by DET17; 04-27-2020 at 08:35 PM.. Reason: +1 more pic
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Old 04-27-2020, 02:39 PM   #447
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Well the top secret "perform this work when the wife is gone on vacation with the girls" will include these goodies:



You see, driving the car the last 6 months has convinced me that I'm under sprung. Drilling DEEP into the TB archives, I find the majority of the more intelligent users of KONI Sports have matched them up with spring rates of 250~300#/in front..... and 175~200#/in rears. I'm pretty sure the B&G Progressives are less than 175#/in (butt dyno, no actual measurements BUT comparing with the MikeP spring thread).

My old 745T with factory wagon springs and Bils HD was damn near PERFECT when traversing rough pavement... once & done. I want that same performance from this sedan if possible. I consulted with Michael Yount and Ben Kaplan, and the survey says that even a near 60 year old enthusiast would be pleased with 250#/in front, and 175#/in rears. I bought the XT barrel springs for the fronts, standard 5" Eibachs for the rears. No shortie struts for me.....as BNE states that If I'm happy with the 40mm lowering of the B&G's, there is no reason to shorten the struts. Last, I'm waiting on 2ManyTurbos to send me a pair of ABS struts that I can cut up and weld Ben's stop rings to.

Hope those struts get here before the summertime Girlfriend gettaway beach trip!

Last edited by DET17; 04-27-2020 at 08:48 PM..
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Old 04-27-2020, 03:04 PM   #448
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really clean, looks great!
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Old 04-27-2020, 03:43 PM   #449
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Very nice
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:20 AM   #450
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Excellent. I love it! White paint look so fresh and that front end looks great with the ecodes. So good to see it out in the sun.
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