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Old 10-09-2019, 03:17 PM   #701
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Default Bertone wiper blades and arms

Momentarily befuddled . . . .

The Bertone has 18" and 16" wiper blades. The windshield is actually bigger than other 240 versions due to the slope to the back. Now I discover that the wiper arms are different lengths also, by about an inch.

My logic tells me that with the pivot point in the middle of the blade the longer blade goes with the longer arm and that goes on the driver side.

Sound right?

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Ford V8 Conversion Manual -
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=250257

Bertone Restoration - http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=256460
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:36 PM   #702
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When all else fails, fit check and test! Should be obvious....
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:41 PM   #703
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Yeah, got it done but . . .

Put the pins in from the wrong side. A pain to change.

Driver side aligned fine, passenger side took three tries and the spring retaining clip is another pain to get off.

Done.

On to the next problem.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:36 PM   #704
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Default The next problem . . .

While I have driven the car around the neighborhood today I attempted to drive it 10 miles to have the toe aligned. It just didn't run right. Responds to throttle with rpms little torque.

Gave up and put it back in the garage. Pulled a plug and found it running pig rich.



Really strange that #6 cylinder was far more sooted up than others and #4 appeared that it had never been fired. Injectors were new Bosch 4 years ago. Fuel Distributor has been rebuilt and I assume calibrated.

Connected fuel pressure test rig and found it at 48 psi on a warm engine. Fuel distributor regulated pressure about 72 psi. Dwell with O2 sensor disconnected 42%. Frequency valve vibrates. Dwell 46% with O2 sensor connected.

All that seems to be right out of the GreenBook.

What's a mother to do?

I might have to give up and reread the GreenBook.

Last edited by TestPoint; 10-27-2019 at 03:02 PM..
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Old 10-11-2019, 01:22 PM   #705
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I had a similar issue with the "Georgia Coupe". Been taking it out for spin around the neighborhood. Then one day it just didn't act right. Turn off on me and I couldn't get it started. All systems were GO before I set out. Took a while to get it start and get it back home. Didn't look further for the problem. I got revs but no power. Almost didn't make it back up the hill to get home. Waiting to hear what others have to say about your issue. Funny thing is I was about to head to the highway to really open things up. Only made it a few blocks.
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Old 10-11-2019, 06:29 PM   #706
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Ya'll have a lot more patience for these elderly systems than I do....
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Old 10-11-2019, 08:59 PM   #707
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Default Five year summary of repairs

- DRAFT - I am going to put this into chronological order with picture/links to the issue/discussion/resolution - or not.

For my own enlightenment I thought I would go back over 5.5 years of screwing with this car.

Found timing set to 10 degrees BEFORE TDC. Suspect timing set on the wrong #1 plug.

Replaced fuel pump relay and a spare – that was not the problem

Replaced ignition switch – that was the problem. Passed voltage but not enough current in the run position.

Replaced fuel tank - rusted beyond cleaning

Replaced in-tank pump due to having pumped really rusty gas

Replace in-tank pump (again) due to the 1 1/2" pickup hose dissolving

Replaced pressure pump because of pumping rust.

Replaced pressure pump because (again) because the ebay pump just did not fit

Replaced fuel filter (twice) due to attempting to filter really rusty gas

Had the fuel distributor professionally rebuilt due to leaks by amateur PO rebuild attempt and distributing really rusty gas

Had the fuel distributor rebuilt (again) under warranty due to possible contaminated gas. Rust was found. Fine rust will blow through a Bosch filter.

Found and replaced gasket between halves of the xxxxxxx

Verified distributor vacuum advance operation

Replaced every inch of many vacuum hoses after extensive search for unique hose routing

Replaced ECU due to PO wrong part installed

Replaced O2 sensor. Original dead as a door nail.

Cleaned WUR several times. Some times it worked, sometimes it didn't. Suspect internal filter clogged with rust.

Replaced WUR with professionally rebuilt unit

Replaced fuel injectors after bench test verified that they did not work correctly and cleaning had no affect

Checked compression – as OEM new

Removed front of engine to confirm that crank-to-cam timing was correct. While I found evidence of PO's mechanic, Elroy, the ASE master oil change technician, having been there timing appeared to be correct.

Found hose clamp under the valve cover. It had been damaged just a little by cam/valve operation

Found distributor rotor one tooth off probably to attempt to time the engine to #4 cylinder.

Replaced spark plugs (only once)

Replaced spark plug wires (twice)

Replaced distributor coil and pickup w/lead to ignition module

And . . . at the last minute the steering rack blew a seal and dumped all the power steering fluid on the floor. That has now been replaced.

Yes, Mr. Bill . . . you can have too much fun.




Last edited by TestPoint; 10-11-2019 at 10:50 PM..
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Old 10-11-2019, 09:42 PM   #708
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Quote:
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Ya'll have a lot more patience for these elderly systems than I do....
Megasquirt..... a thing o' beauty. I know, sacrilege for a survivor such as this. BUT it would increase the reliability exponentially. Nothing quite like that ECU dithering thru the various fuel table cells. Stunning (like the Lama.... big hitter).
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Old 10-11-2019, 09:46 PM   #709
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An aftermarket efi system would be a thing of beauty for sure -- have to do some intake machining to change injectors and also create some fuel rails. After 5.5 years of trying....I think the odds are pretty long that you're gonna get her going like she once did Tom.
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Old 10-11-2019, 10:21 PM   #710
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This has become a real life challenge. These K-jet cars ran well for years with the original Bosch system. I had one nearly new for several years back in the mid-'80's and loved it. The 140 HP PRV engine seemed very adequate at that time.

Despite the exhaustive list above I have probably spent less than $2,000 beyond the tires, wheel restoration and paint restoring this car. Cost has never been a consideration.

Absolutely the last resort is that I have a 30k mile, 240 HP Ford 302 engine/transmission with EVERYTHING I need to swap into the Bertone if I totally give up. While not a 500 HP LSx it is certainly more than I will ever need. Converting to an aftermarket fuel/ignition system would probably cost more that the 302 swap even considering that I would have to replace the engine crane that I sold after swearing never to pull another engine.

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Old 10-12-2019, 11:00 AM   #711
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Tom... Blocked exhaust?
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:09 PM   #712
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John,

On your advice I rodded out the Cat about 5 years ago. It was completely clear.

I had one of my occasional flashes of adequacy about 3:30 this morning.

I was on my way to the garage to try 'one more thing'. This car has been subjected to fuel contamination from the very beginning. As noted above I have replaced or professionally rebuilt everything in the fuel system from the gas cap to the injectors except for that 'one more thing'. Who knows, I might get lucky.

Back shortly.

Back . . . .

I didn't think that I had ever verified that the cold start injector was not leaking. Have now. No spray, no drips. I will add that to the list of dead ends.
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Old 10-12-2019, 07:38 PM   #713
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New entertainment.

After Alabama beat Texas A&M I went back to the garage to do some things over hoping for different results.

Attempted to retest dwell that I did a few days ago. Now I have none and the frequency valve does not vibrate.

I did get the golf cart running. Compared to K-jet that was easy.

Tomorrow, tomorrow.
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Old 10-12-2019, 08:28 PM   #714
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How is the wire harness? Low miles but still going on almost 40 years.
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Old 10-12-2019, 08:49 PM   #715
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There does not seem to be any signs of overall insulation rot but that doesn't mean that there is not a bad connection somewhere.
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Old 10-13-2019, 01:40 AM   #716
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Usually a bad ground!
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Old 10-14-2019, 02:13 PM   #717
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Default Started all over . . .

Went to the garage fresh and rested and tried to think through the situation. Never mind all those years of issues. This is life this morning.

Car is running very rich. Spark plug is black. O2 sensor is putting out a steady 0.92v with no swing indicating a very rich condition. Fuel pressure rig says 22 psi cold, 49 psi hot, 72 psi regulated pressure from the fuel distributor. If anything that should mean that the fuel management system should be functioning. Idle is adjusted to about 1000 rpm, 950 is spec. Responds to throttle to any rpm you want.

What could cause the set of conditions? About the only thing that comes to mind is that the CO screw is wildly out of adjustment. That has been tested and adjusted many times over the years of this saga.

What else would produce rich condition?
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Old 10-14-2019, 05:17 PM   #718
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"Responds to throttle to any rpm you want." While powering the car, or sitting in park/neutral?

Remind me -- this system has the old "swing arm" air meter, is that right? The more air that moves past, the more the arm swings up -- and I presume that movement does something to system pressures which is what changes the amount of fuel being injected. If that's correct -- then it seems to me that either the arm is moving too much for a given amount of air --- or the injectors are allowing too much fuel past when they open (staying open for too long). That's the best I've got.
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Old 10-14-2019, 05:59 PM   #719
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Yes, the rpm's are available in Park.

The 1981 had the completely updated air flow sensor plate that swung down rather than up thus raising the fuel distributor control plunger providing additional fuel to the injectors.

I can envision several reasons that the control plunger could be metering too much fuel.

The air flow sensor plate is not centered and is holding the control plunger off the rest position of the control plunger.

The CO control screw adjustment has raised the control plunger too much.

The control plunger may be stuck off the rest position.

I may get to it tomorrow afternoon as I have to report for jury duty in the morning. Been called 5 times, never served. Must be something in my parole history or taking a Neal Bortz book to the assembly room.
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:40 PM   #720
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I was called 4 times in 15 years in Houston - served once. Never even called in the 22 years since in Knoxville or Charlotte.
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:54 PM   #721
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Quote:
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....... Converting to an aftermarket fuel/ignition system would probably cost more that the 302 swap even considering that I would have to replace the engine crane that I sold after swearing never to pull another engine.
Tom, it would actually be cheaper than you think. The hard part is done.... you have an electronic fuel pump system. You can build a "fuel only" Megasquirt and leave your ignition alone if it works reliably. I've not bought one lately, but the prebuilt MS2 boxes were running around $600 I think and the rest of the inputs that MS typically uses (and you must have) are a throttle position sensor, O2 sensor, coolant temp. sensor, and some sort of idle control (some get away without this and just warm her up old school). I don't know your 6 cylinder engine injection as I've avoided KJet (did help my son convert his 81 244 to MS1 using a later intake).

It really isn't that bad. The most difficult part for you is a proper throttle body with a sensor that will speak to MS, and of course the injectors & FPR. Wasn't there a later version of this exact engine that was EFI?

I'm feeling your pain, for sure. God knows I've poured thousands of hours into various projects over the last couple decades..... I'm tapering off a bit now
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:56 PM   #722
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Tom check Lambda dwell to verify where it is in open loop VS closed loop. Is it leaning it out?

I always set them to .8 Volt at the O2 sensor in open loop. It is supposed to lean it out from there.

With idle CO set right and the frequency valve adjusting fuel... It *should be OK.

As for power.... Do you KNOW for a fact that it doesn't have some wierd regrind cam that got ground wrong? I have seen this.
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:03 PM   #723
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Quote:
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Wasn't there a later version of this exact engine that was EFI?
Volvo B-280. We got the 'F' version here in the states.

Fun one is the Eagle Premier/Dodge Monaco version that has 'E' heads, 93mm bore size and much improved exhaust manifolds. Give it the B-280 throttle body for 170 horses that idle perfectly smooth and never need valve adjustments. Use the EP/DM Renix (wierd Frenchie) engine management and it will control idle speed with bump-up for A/C and radiator fan if you do the electric fan.
I used the complete DM accessory drive for a nice serp belt, quiet A/C compressor, German P/S pump and 120amp alternator. Not as hard as it sounds.
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Old 10-17-2019, 04:35 PM   #724
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Go or no go for the show Tom? Looking like rain for show day/Sat. I'm out, for other reasons. But I rarely knowingly travel to one to stand around/drive the car through the rain.
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Old 10-17-2019, 05:24 PM   #725
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I gave up.

A few months ago the lift fuel pump would not pump fuel. Replacement pump had dissolved the short tubing above the pump to the hard line.

A couple weeks ago the steering rack that had worked for 5 years in the 100+ miles I have driven in that time then blew a seal the day I attempted to drive it out of the garage to wash it.

The CO adjustment with the frequency valve has been working for 5 years now and tested/adjusted many times. Suddenly dead. Got the diagnostic chart out and the first test was for 12v at pin 8 on the control unit. No 12v.

I fixed this issue once before. A post on 6/24/2012 describes how cleaning the contacts in the System Relay fixed the pin 8 issue and started the frequency valve operation.

May take a vacation from cars. Got to finish my Boy Scout camp restrooms and showers before about 100 little short people show up in November.

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