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Old 01-26-2011, 12:24 PM   #176
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Hi,

here you can download a xdf file for the 984 bin which has been made by a buddy of mine, almost complete, without guaranty. I think the 5x5maps are wrong scaled, but this should be easy to correct.

http://www.stonis-world.net/docs/xdf/Volvo_984_PW.xdf

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Old 01-26-2011, 12:39 PM   #177
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Does this work for the '960's as well? My car is a '95 960, and have a friend who's a prominent tuner in the BMW community and is familiar with TunerPro the Bosch boxes that could help me if this would get me started. OTOH - I'm swapping in a V8 this spring, so I don't much care if I blow it up....
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:51 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by kendogg View Post
Does this work for the '960's as well?
960's were only delivered with the LH950/EZK208 (B204FT) or the LH962/EZK207/EZK219 (B230FT) boxes, earlier versions had a 578 or 597 LH.

984 or 977 have the immobilizer, you have to swap at least to the 967 bin to get them removed.
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:03 PM   #179
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The 984 bin is what I'm going to use, but you need a 967 ECU to run it. It has that immobilizer function so it won't run in the 984 ECU without the special key or something. Let's see who can crack that immobilizer. Also remember that Fred guy? He said the 984 software was the best and the chips he sells for 16v turbo use the 984 bin, that's why you have to use the 967 ecu if you buy those chips from him.

The reason people sell the 937 turbo bins is they will run in any 9xx turbo ECU. My plan is to use the 984 bin in my 967 ECU for my 16v 2.5L turbo setup one of these days it be all together.


If I want to use the 967 bin, I can run that in my 967 ECU. Sure you can run the 967 software in the 984 ECU, but susposedly the 984 software is better so you should be running the 984 software in the 967 ECU. This has to do with the LH2.4.4 flavoring I believe.
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:21 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by sbabbs View Post
If I want to use the 967 bin, I can run that in my 967 ECU. Sure you can run the 967 software in the 984 ECU, but susposedly the 984 software is better so you should be running the 984 software in the 967 ECU. This has to do with the LH2.4.4 flavoring I believe.
That's new to me, but good to know. The point is, we can't get this 967 ECU here in Europe, never seen one, never found one on the junk yards. The only reason for me to believe that this ominous 967 box is really existing is the fact that i have a 967 bin which i use to tune my own files

So we use the latest 967 bin without immobilizer in any 9xx boxes. Does anybody has a 967 box for sale ?
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:23 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by stoni View Post
Looks good, but I think some of the tables are labeled incorrectly.

When I am fairly satisfied with my 93x XDF, I will migrate it to another BIN if there is demand. It's simple, just tedious and time consuming...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbabbs
...susposedly the 984 software is better so you should be running the 984 software in the 967 ECU. This has to do with the LH2.4.4 flavoring I believe.
I'm interested. Go on...
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:30 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by beepee View Post
Looks good, but I think some of the tables are labeled incorrectly.
Feel free to correct it

I would like to see a xdf file for the 967 bin, think this is the most advanced bin for most of the people in the world.
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:36 PM   #183
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I run the 967 bin in NA 933 ECU's and it runs great. I'm running a modified 967 in a 933 box in my 90 wagon right now as a matter of fact. The 967 bin is a real good program, but the 984 is a little newer program and supposedly even better. Fred said it has to do with the way the program hierarchy in what it does at what time in regards to input from the sensors and stuff. It makes sense to me as they should be trying to make it better as they go along so the latest software should be the best and most advanced.... Not sure what else to say about this as this is all I know....

As far as what makes a 984 or a 967 ECU different then a earlier lh2.4.2 ECU is there is a chip on the board that has some programming on it besides the 27c256 chip. Other then that, the ECU's are identical. So basically we could take that chip off the 967 and read it and program up some and put them on earlier boards and they would then become lh2.4.4 boards and they would run the 984 software perhaps....
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:41 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by sbabbs View Post
The 984 bin is what I'm going to use, but you need a 967 ECU to run it. It has that immobilizer function so it won't run in the 984 ECU without the special key or something. Let's see who can crack that immobilizer. Also remember that Fred guy? He said the 984 software was the best and the chips he sells for 16v turbo use the 984 bin, that's why you have to use the 967 ecu if you buy those chips from him
....
Simon, I don't know if 984 is something special, but can assure you that "tuned" 16vT bin you are talking about don't use anything from 984. I have that bin from the group buy back then, it is +10% tune.
As, for the immobilizer function - it is matter of comparing the hardware differences between 976/984 and from there - finding the software "lock" function.
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:41 PM   #185
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From the Bosch Automotive Catalog:

(this is for a 940 turbo)

Looks like ALL 9xx ECUs were LH2.4.4, and the 56x were 2.4.1.

And the 98x series started in 1996. I'm going to do a compare between some other 2.4.4 bins and see just how much is different...
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:44 PM   #186
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Probably a stupid question. I have Freds fuel chip in my ECU. If I purchase a TOP or other EEPROM chip burner, can I take the chip out and load the info into TunerPro as a bin and edit it? I dont want to change the fuel or AMM setting, but I would like to change the rev limit and get rid of the fuel cut if it still has that.

Thanks
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:53 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by turbovulvo View Post
Probably a stupid question. I have Freds fuel chip in my ECU. If I purchase a TOP or other EEPROM chip burner, can I take the chip out and load the info into TunerPro as a bin and edit it? I dont want to change the fuel or AMM setting, but I would like to change the rev limit and get rid of the fuel cut if it still has that.

Thanks
Every EEPROM burner I've seen can read as well as write. So yes, your plan will work.

Well, that is, if the chip is re-writable. You can tell by googling the chip manufacturer's part number. If it comes up as OTP (one time programmable) then you can't reflash it.

But even the most expensive resellers of re-writable chips are only $5 a pop. And you can reflash as many times as you like.
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:01 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by beepee View Post
I'm going to do a compare between some other 2.4.4 bins and see just how much is different...
Well, seems like the 987 bin is slightly larger than the earlier bins (ends at 0x41E8 vs ~0x3800 for the others).

The 954 BIN is all ones after that point.... but the 987 has some more stuff wayyy down starting at 0x6000. About another 2k of stuff... hmm..
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:04 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by beepee View Post
Well, seems like the 987 bin is slightly larger than the earlier bins (ends at 0x41E8 vs ~0x3800 for the others).

The 954 BIN is all ones after that point.... but the 987 has some more stuff wayyy down starting at 0x6000. About another 2k of stuff... hmm..
Can you post that bin? I don't have it and am interested to see it.
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:04 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by stoni View Post
Feel free to correct it

I would like to see a xdf file for the 967 bin, think this is the most advanced bin for most of the people in the world.
Jens/mrjaybreeze at ecuproject made a good one for a 962. lots and lots of tables in that one. It is posted in my thread about cold start problems/fueling. Might be helpful. Has a lot of nice maps in there for afterstart fueling and stuff, good for finetuning the things that have annoyed me on the other bins that i have ran over the years

Most of the 984 differences are a mapping that is a bit better, less room for lambda correction, a bit more refined compared to the coarse stuff volvo used a few years before... (all in the .bin). Like Fredrik said, the later the software (box), less adaptivity, more precision. I do believe that the 984 software is a bit better, i just don't know why you should run it in a 967. Is it because the immobilizer in the 984 bin doesn't work then? Hardware can be a bit newer on the 984 too but probably not a huge amount. I have a 984 in my car, every 9xx (8v) chip works in it. Only thing that doesn't seem to work is the reset via the OBD blink socket, the error codes read just fine.

Isn't it enough to take for example any other bin, change all fields/tables/maps to the ones from a 984 to get 984 everything except the immobilizer? (ok, maybe for full effect you need the 984 box too). I have a hard time believing the chip changes anything in the way the ecu processes things. Ok it can enable disable certain algorithms and routines but not completely change the way the firmware processes stuff.

When I spoke to Fredrik about the special 16VT software, he said they used the 967 because that one is available to everyone in the world. Europe in the form of the 962 from the soft turbo models (i am pretty sure the 962 and 967 difference is just the eprom) and the rest got more/only hpt models with 967 when the 940 was discontinued in '95, 3 years before EU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbovulvo View Post
Probably a stupid question. I have Freds fuel chip in my ECU. If I purchase a TOP or other EEPROM chip burner, can I take the chip out and load the info into TunerPro as a bin and edit it? I dont want to change the fuel or AMM setting, but I would like to change the rev limit and get rid of the fuel cut if it still has that.

Thanks
Yeah, that is possible. You wont be able to increase the amm/fuel cut in that chip though, all to the max. The chip (edit: that i bought in the GB years ago!) shows good values in the xdf made by beepee so you are good to go to edit with the 93x xdf file... The fredchips are written on read-only chips so you cant erase it afaik. Just use the old chip that came out of your car.
The top programmer works nicely and is cheap. Just the software can be a bit wonky though.
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:05 PM   #191
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Can you post that bin? I don't have it and am interested to see it.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2074311/0280...T4_LH244_0.bin

Let me know what you find. I'm currently brushing up on my (weak) ASM skills so I can hopefully understand things a little bit better...

EDIT: going to work on converting v9 of my XDF to read the 984 bin. ipdown's LH editor doesn't seem to like the 984 BIN so this is gonna take a while...

Last edited by beepee; 01-26-2011 at 03:14 PM..
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:23 PM   #192
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I have here a 984 ECU with the stock 984 chip and bin. It won't start or run in my car if I put it in. If I put the 984 chip in my 967 ECU it will start and run. If I put my 967 chip in my 984 ECU it will start and run. Supposedly the 983 bin is the same as a 984 it just doesn't have the immobilizer. That is the bin we need, but nobody seems to have it. It won't be in any cars here in the US.

Remember the bins in these chips is not just the data and the tables, it's also the program to run the car and the later bins have the more refined program so you can't just put the maps and data on the earlier program and expect to to run the same as a later program...

The program being the order in which it takes the data from the sensors and uses it to adjust things like fuel amount and what not, all that can be different from program to program. This is why the different numbered bins look different if you compare them to each other. They are different, but some of the tables and maps are the same...

Ipdown is the only one I know of who is thinking along the lines of rewriting the actual program, not just adjusting the maps and this or that, but a new program that would run on the lh box.

If I'm gonna go to the trouble of adjusting the maps, I'm gonna start with the best program for sure...

Last edited by sbabbs; 01-26-2011 at 03:31 PM..
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:38 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beepee View Post
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2074311/0280...T4_LH244_0.bin

Let me know what you find. I'm currently brushing up on my (weak) ASM skills so I can hopefully understand things a little bit better...

EDIT: going to work on converting v9 of my XDF to read the 984 bin. ipdown's LH editor doesn't seem to like the 984 BIN so this is gonna take a while...
Hey, I have that one. I though it is 987.. As a map set it is not different.
What's make it a bit different is a lot of code.

Just a thought: There exist two CPU's used in LH2.4/EZK - SAB 80C515 and 80C535.
The difference is - 535 is ROMless, it depends only on external EPROM, while the 515 have 2K internal OTP ROM. It is possible that 984 uses 515 one, and the "key" or whatever is used for immobilizer function is stored in the inside ROM. Then the software can be paired
with the key inside..
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:54 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by sbabbs View Post

Remember the bins in these chips is not just the data and the tables, it's also the program to run the car and the later bins have the more refined program so you can't just put the maps and data on the earlier program and expect to to run the same as a later program...

The program being the order in which it takes the data from the sensors and uses it to adjust things like fuel amount and what not, all that can be different from program to program. This is why the different numbered bins look different if you compare them to each other. They are different, but some of the tables and maps are the same...

Ipdown is the only one I know of who is thinking along the lines of rewriting the actual program, not just adjusting the maps and this or that, but a new program that would run on the lh box.

If I'm gonna go to the trouble of adjusting the maps, I'm gonna start with the best program for sure...
I looked for the 983 file, no luck yet. When/if I find it i'll post it here of course. Just a matter of time i hope.
Agreed on the rest. Best start with the newest/best program.
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:15 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by sbabbs View Post
As far as what makes a 984 or a 967 ECU different then a earlier lh2.4.2 ECU is there is a chip on the board that has some programming on it besides the 27c256 chip. Other then that, the ECU's are identical. So basically we could take that chip off the 967 and read it and program up some and put them on earlier boards and they would then become lh2.4.4 boards and they would run the 984 software perhaps....
Won't work, just tested it 5 minutes ago. I have a 937 ECU, modded with the parts from a 977 ECU. I have desoldered this chip besides the eprom, incl. the capacitors, resisters and diodes, placed them on my 937 ECU. If the 984 bin is in this ECU, everything is dead, same as i would swap in a real 984 ECU. It seems, that this 984 software won't work in any ECU if the external immobilizer hardware (key and transponder box) is not present.
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:25 PM   #196
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About the assembly - it is not hard at all to learn assembly, afterall it consist of simple instructions doing exactly one thing, for example "ADD A, B" obviously adds two registers,
in this case content of B is added to A, and the result of addition is stored back to A.
The hard part is to learn to recognise higher level code - how an algorithm is described with the help of a lot of small instructions. Todays 8-bit microcontrollers outperforms in many aspects the ones used in LH 2.4, but still the later has some unique features and was not chosen accidentally. After many hours poking with the code I can tell that LH 2.4 code is written in pure assembly language, not in C or some other hi-level language. Some of it's parts are heavily optimized, and Bosch engineers did the great work back then.

Anyway, if someone wants to know what 8051 (SAB 80C535 is an 8051 derivate) assembly looks like and wants to learn it this is the best online resource: http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/comp/8051/set8051.html

The SAB 80C535/515 datasheet and user manual can be downloaded from here:
http://linuxfan.org/~ipdown/mybrick/..._datasheet.pdf
http://linuxfan.org/~ipdown/mybrick/...ser_manual.pdf

Datasheet describes electrical parameters, pinout, footprint and features,
while user manual describes how internal features works, and how to program the processor
peripherals

At ecuproject can be found 218 EZK and 950 disassembly listings, I have them now more
complete, but the posted ones are still very good.

At last, even if I have much passion in this subject, I don't have enough free time,
and besides disassembly and dividing what is code and what data, tracing the interconnected hardware, there is still the core of the software which is mainly unknown.
There are a whole lot of optimized functions that are doing calculations, which have to be studied and understood, after which the program flow and logic can be deduced.
I work on this just because I want to know how the damn thing works, so if someone wants
to help understanding disassembly - please do!
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:27 PM   #197
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You are correct. Only caveat there would be that because the fuel and spark are physically separate computers, you would need two Ostrich emulators to be able to modify both simultaneously. Otherwise, you are stuck running stock software on one or the other.

I think there are a few services where you can e-mail a bin file to someone and have them mail you a chip, but I'm sure a tbricker would do it for less than that would cost.

But hell, if you mail me a blank chip and pay postage, I'll do it for free! It's literally a minutes work.
That's a very good point, i hadn't thought about needing one for both EZK and LH. So a burner is definitely a good idea.

Thanks for the offer on the free burning, i may take you up on that in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gross polluter
Sorry, but no. Mass air and speed density tuning strategies are entirely different. Don't get me wrong, I fully support tuning stock ECU's. But, don't expect to be versed in tuning a standalone once you've got the hang of tuning LH.
Yeah, i know most (all?) aftermarket EMS use MAPs rather than a MAF and of course, EVERY variable is easily tweakable, while LH still has some hard logic (like the lambda feedback). Still though, understanding the chart and how to apply it i think will still be a good starting point for someone who's really only dealt with carbs and a gas analyzer.

I'm sure i'll play with MS some day, if only for the MPG possibilities.
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:34 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipdown View Post
At last, even if I have much passion in this subject, I don't have enough free time,
and besides disassembly and dividing what is code and what data, tracing the interconnected hardware, there is still the core of the software which is mainly unknown.
There are a whole lot of optimized functions that are doing calculations, which have to be studied and understood, after which the program flow and logic can be deduced.
I work on this just because I want to know how the damn thing works, so if someone wants
to help understanding disassembly - please do!
This is why I suggest we start a thread or sub forum on attacking the hardware aspect of LH. Back when we picked at the DSM ECU in the early 2000's it took a community of 40-50 people to actively pick at small parts of the ASM, to report their findings, to develop the necessary documentation to modify the ECU code on the ASM level.


If we could get a group of people together that want to pick at the ASM we could have a pretty good understanding of what the code is doing, and how to tailor it to our needs.
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:37 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by JW240 View Post
Jens/mrjaybreeze at ecuproject made a good one for a 962. lots and lots of tables in that one. It is posted in my thread about cold start problems/fueling.
Jan Willem, can you send me this xdf via email, have still no login at ecuprojects, the board admin has still not activated my account

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Originally Posted by JW240 View Post
Isn't it enough to take for example any other bin, change all fields/tables/maps to the ones from a 984 to get 984 everything except the immobilizer?
No, if you do it this way the mixture is too rich, and this in every area. Main reason for this is that the 5x5maps will be calculated in another way. You can change all fields to the ones from the 984 except this 6 tables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JW240 View Post
When I spoke to Fredrik about the special 16VT software, he said they used the 967 because that one is available to everyone in the world. Europe in the form of the 962 from the soft turbo models (i am pretty sure the 962 and 967 difference is just the eprom) and the rest got more/only hpt models with 967 when the 940 was discontinued in '95, 3 years before EU.
Yes, the 962 box has obviously the same hardware like the 977/984 ECU, means with the chip besides the eprom.
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:43 PM   #200
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Jan Willem, can you send me this xdf via email, have still no login at ecuprojects, the board admin has still not activated my account

No, if you do it this way the mixture is too rich, and this in every area. Main reason for this is that the 5x5maps will be calculated in another way. You can change all fields to the ones from the 984 except this 6 tables.
xdf - sent!
good to know about the 984 and which maps need to be changed.
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