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Old 03-04-2010, 06:52 PM   #1
242Bleek
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Default Any 16v b21/b23's on here?

Seems like ppl avoid the older redblocks like the plague around here for some reason. Im doing a 16v swap on my B23ft and the only thing im having a hard time getting a hold of is a round tooth crank gear. I first contacted the guy an knox motorsports about getting one and he was really cool but said there isn't enough intrest in the u.s. to justify producing them (which relates to my first sentence) Then I contacted John Halvarsson at Halvarsson racing who was very helpful and got back with me right away with a price but said he would need to check u.s. customs in order to get it here then I never heard back from him again after sending him multuple e-mails. Thats 2 down, then theres SPM who's website makes you not want to even try to buy anything from them because of the layout, but I contacted them as well and heard nothing back. So what am I to do? How does one in the u.s. get one of these gears that are made of unbotanium appearantly? Thanks in adavnce...
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:20 PM   #2
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isn't qwkswede using a B23 bottom end on his 16v wagon?
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:53 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by 242Bleek View Post
Seems like ppl avoid the older redblocks like the plague around here for some reason. Im doing a 16v swap on my B23ft and the only thing im having a hard time getting a hold of is a round tooth crank gear. I first contacted the guy an knox motorsports about getting one and he was really cool but said there isn't enough intrest in the u.s. to justify producing them (which relates to my first sentence) Then I contacted John Halvarsson at Halvarsson racing who was very helpful and got back with me right away with a price but said he would need to check u.s. customs in order to get it here then I never heard back from him again after sending him multuple e-mails. Thats 2 down, then theres SPM who's website makes you not want to even try to buy anything from them because of the layout, but I contacted them as well and heard nothing back. So what am I to do? How does one in the u.s. get one of these gears that are made of unbotanium appearantly? Thanks in adavnce...
I'm about to order one from a place that has them in stock and answers--eventually--their email since I'm building what should be the nastiest n.a. B23 16v in the Continent for a guy.

PM me and I can get 2 sent over. Save a bit on post and go for it.

What are you doing for pistons?
want to see the ones I'm supplying?
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:12 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
I'm about to order one from a place that has them in stock and answers--eventually--their email since I'm building what should be the nastiest n.a. B23 16v in the Continent for a guy.

PM me and I can get 2 sent over. Save a bit on post and go for it.

What are you doing for pistons?
want to see the ones I'm supplying?
Thats awesome john. I will be pming you about the gear. Im using the stock forged Mahle B23ft slugs with valve reliefs and some drop in H-beams for now. This bottom end has some torture under it's belt so when I build up my next B23 block I will be getting in contact with you for the super bitchin CPness you sell. I wouldn't mind seeing them either
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:13 PM   #5
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isn't qwkswede using a B23 bottom end on his 16v wagon?
Yea I talked to him about it years ago, he got his from SPM I believe. Still the only b23 16v I know on here to this date.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:31 PM   #6
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Try this one
http://shop.klracing.se/cgi-bin/ibut...tva&artgrp=171
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:41 PM   #7
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I've got one from SPM that I got in a group buy if you want it, pm me!
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:42 PM   #8
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Ahhh, I gots me one from Knoxmotors sports. Have you called them recently? He did a production run of round tooth gears for B21/B23 and there may be some left for sale.
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:08 PM   #9
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Default Squaretooth -vs- Roundtooth,

What makes one better than the other; Does one hold a clear performance/endurance lead over the other?
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:18 PM   #10
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I have a round tooth crank gear from a B230ft if you need it, I'm not sure if it will work on a b23 though.
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:47 PM   #11
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What makes one better than the other; Does one hold a clear performance/endurance lead over the other?
Well, 16v is round tooth so I'm assuming that's the main motivation behind this. However, I suppose instead of swapping to round tooth all around one could always swap the gears on the head to square tooth. BUT the big issue then would be finding a belt. There's a bunch of resources out there for the timing belt, but all with round tooth. On top of that the 16v cam gears are deeper/wider allowing you to run a wider belt too.

Edit: Also wasn't Volvoslyder (or something like that?) doing a B21 16v build? I thought I remembered a project thread about that. Jesus used a B21 on his probably-most-best-most-known-most-awesome 242, right? What did Jesus use (WDJU)?
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:50 PM   #12
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Well the main motivation is that it would be nice if top and bottom match. The motor I'm building will have some of the Soooper Bitchin JVAB/Knox motorsport 4130 steel billet cams with some lumpity profiles and will see regular 7000+ so we figure, yeah let's go round and so we have to have the bottom pulley.

As for others, I've supplied CP pistons and my 160mm rods to a fellow in Finland doing a B21, and i think I supplied a set to a Swedish guy doing B23. (My pistons interchange between B23 and B230 so i can't recall exactly...)

And no the snouts are different so no interchange on the B21/B23 gears to B230 or back.
(Haven' really looked at what the exact diff is or if one can bore the one or what, maybe we should.)
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:58 PM   #13
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I have a round tooth crank gear from a B230ft if you need it, I'm not sure if it will work on a b23 though.
It will not.

Stock B23 gear on the left, Knox Motorsports prototype B23 gear on the right
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Old 03-05-2010, 12:12 AM   #14
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My question is one is better than the other,??
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Old 03-05-2010, 12:42 AM   #15
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looking at it, the round tooth seems to have deeper teeth overall.. Meh?
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:19 AM   #16
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looking at it, the round tooth seems to have deeper teeth overall.. Meh?
i think it more or less has to do with belt availability for 16v setups
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Old 03-05-2010, 02:41 PM   #17
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My question is one is better than the other,??
The cam gears used on a 16v are round tooth and it also uses a wider timing belt. You want this wider timing belt because you have another 8 valve springs of resistance and need the stronger belt.

What people do is get a spare cam gear from a 16v and run that as the aux shaft gear and then run a B234 crank gear if they have a B230block. The "snout" on the crank of a B21 and a B23 is significantly larger and you cant run a B234 crank gear on it and need a custom one and=this thread.
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Old 03-05-2010, 05:38 PM   #18
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My question is one is better than the other,??
Yes, without regard to belt width. The round toothed belt has deeper teeth and they engage the sprocket more quietly than the square drive setup. So, it is a better setup to use. It's not mission critical. But if you are going to run lumpy cams with stiffer springs. It's nice to use something that has a bit more positive pull on the sprockets.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:19 PM   #19
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And no the snouts are different so no interchange on the B21/B23 gears to B230 or back.
(Haven' really looked at what the exact diff is or if one can bore the one or what, maybe we should.)
I would think it could be bored or sleeved depending which way it has to go. The keyway could be plunged with an endmill and then broached square to maintain accurate clocking.
I want to build an N/A 16V for the boat one day when the methods get more "set in stone".
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Old 03-06-2010, 12:23 PM   #20
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What makes one better than the other; Does one hold a clear performance/endurance lead over the other?
round = better

http://www.fennerprecision.com/timin...dvantages.aspx (middle of page, FHT vs. MXL)

basically the round tooth of the belt gets a better "grip/more surface area" on the gear

if you look around on the 'net, going to a round tooth belt is/was an upgrade for everything from a Ford 2.3 all the way to the DBA Cosworth Indy car engines
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:21 PM   #21
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I have 1...

Progress/Teaser
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:40 PM   #22
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Crunk sh1t. I envy your intake.
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:20 AM   #23
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That motor is BADASS...where did you source the timing gears?

is there room on the runners to get injectors and a rail?
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:25 AM   #24
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...where did you source the timing gears?
Those are TTR.
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:28 AM   #25
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if you want ttr gears talk to me, or jompa directly

also, slyder that is a super obnoxious color combo! I loves it!!
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