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Old 05-18-2012, 12:01 PM   #1
dj55b
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Default 1984 Volvo Coil-Overs (How to with pictures)

Hi Guys,

Kinda new here, been lurking around this forum a bit to get some ideas for doing a customer's car which is a 1984 Volvo 240 DL (which now stands for "down low" btw). This is the setup that we went with:

Saab 900 front Shocks (KYB)
Stock KYB Rear shocks
300# Front Springs (2.5" x 8")
275# Rear Springs (2.5" x 8" )
Threaded Sleeve lengths - 7" Front, 5" Rear

The owner has plans to put a v8 later on in there. 305 chevy I believe he said, which we (www.re-speed.com) will be doing later on for them.

For the front had to machine out a 1/2" spacer to go inbetween the top hat and the upper mounting plate. That is probably the only not pictured. Also the sleeves I had to machine out the inner diameter a bit to slide over the front shocks. The rear one I originally ordered a 7" sleeve but ended up cutting it to 5" as it was too low. Hope that helps a few of you guys our there. We would consider making kits for them in you guys are interested also. They would look a bit nicer than this one though.

Anyways onto the pictures:

(Can you not directly upload pictures to here???)
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:04 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by dj55b View Post

(Can you not directly upload pictures to here???)
They must be externally hosted and linked.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj55b View Post
Hi Guys,

Kinda new here, been lurking around this forum a bit to get some ideas for doing a customer's car which is a 1984 Volvo 240 DL (which now stands for "down low" btw). This is the setup that we went with:

Saab 900 front Shocks (KYB)
Stock KYB Rear shocks
300# Front Springs (2.5" x 8")
275# Rear Springs (2.5" x 8" )
Threaded Sleeve lengths - 7" Front, 5" Rear

The owner has plans to put a v8 later on in there. 305 chevy I believe he said, which we (www.re-speed.com) will be doing later on for them.

For the front had to machine out a 1/2" spacer to go inbetween the top hat and the upper mounting plate. That is probably the only not pictured. Also the sleeves I had to machine out the inner diameter a bit to slide over the front shocks. The rear one I originally ordered a 7" sleeve but ended up cutting it to 5" as it was too low. Hope that helps a few of you guys our there. We would consider making kits for them in you guys are interested also. They would look a bit nicer than this one though.

Anyways onto the pictures:

(Can you not directly upload pictures to here???)
Are they done that much different than this thread?

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=85793

to directly upload pictures you have to had made a donation of a few bucks, otherwise get a Photobucket or the like site and host them there.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:06 PM   #4
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K, we'll I've just uploaded them onto our forum:

http://www.re-speed.com/index.php?op...d=20&Itemid=20

I'll post just a few here, if you guys want to see the other pictures you'll have to go there:










Last edited by dj55b; 05-18-2012 at 12:14 PM..
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:16 PM   #5
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Nice.

As for making kits, you won't get rich with these cars

Not knowing how things work up there shipping and import wise, you might have a decent customer base in Canada.

http://www.kaplhenke.com/ and a few others make kits, or many of us just buy the parts and adapt them ourselves, not too difficult.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:23 PM   #6
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I like how you machined the inside of the spring perch instead of turning the already small strut tube down even further. the strut tubes have been said to flex when machined.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:57 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mueller View Post
Nice.

As for making kits, you won't get rich with these cars

Not knowing how things work up there shipping and import wise, you might have a decent customer base in Canada.

http://www.kaplhenke.com/ and a few others make kits, or many of us just buy the parts and adapt them ourselves, not too difficult.
Wasn't planning on getting rich, just offering a helping hand
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:01 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by DNAsEqUeNcE View Post
I like how you machined the inside of the spring perch instead of turning the already small strut tube down even further. the strut tubes have been said to flex when machined.
The threaded perches barely had to be machined actually, there's just a couple small edges on the inside (done so that on a race car shock you just put a clip ring and it would sit on that ledge), so I just took that part out. Quick 5 minute job on the lathe, not sure why some people have been grinding / lathing the whole tube vs just the sleeves on here.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:49 PM   #9
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So you think its perfectly OK to put an insert valved for a wimpy OEM spring maybe 100-110 lb/in together with a spring 350% stiffer?
What's the shaft travel on that insert?
What's the spring travel on that 8" spring?

Or doesn't matching springs and damper count anymore?
Or is the lowered "look" the only thing that matters?

Mylesofsmiles called the 1-800 number at Bilstein and asked for the valving on the Bilstein Saab 900 insert and it was about as lightly valved as the Volvo Bilstein so called HD, only shorter travel..
It is a given that when going shorter travel you go stiffer spring AND a stiffer valving to control the stiffer spring.
Bilsteins Saab 900 insert were valved about HALF the rate that you would expect to put a 300-325 spring on..


I guess making stuff function correctly isn't a big deal.
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Old 05-18-2012, 02:44 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
So you think its perfectly OK to put an insert valved for a wimpy OEM spring maybe 100-110 lb/in together with a spring 350% stiffer?
What's the shaft travel on that insert?
What's the spring travel on that 8" spring?

Or doesn't matching springs and damper count anymore?
Or is the lowered "look" the only thing that matters?

Mylesofsmiles called the 1-800 number at Bilstein and asked for the valving on the Bilstein Saab 900 insert and it was about as lightly valved as the Volvo Bilstein so called HD, only shorter travel..
It is a given that when going shorter travel you go stiffer spring AND a stiffer valving to control the stiffer spring.
Bilsteins Saab 900 insert were valved about HALF the rate that you would expect to put a 300-325 spring on..


I guess making stuff function correctly isn't a big deal.
It's low John, that is all that matters. You seem to be confused, this is Performance and Suspension...not Performance Suspension (cannot seem to find that page)
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Old 05-18-2012, 04:32 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
So you think its perfectly OK to put an insert valved for a wimpy OEM spring maybe 100-110 lb/in together with a spring 350% stiffer?
What's the shaft travel on that insert?
What's the spring travel on that 8" spring?

Or doesn't matching springs and damper count anymore?
Or is the lowered "look" the only thing that matters?

Mylesofsmiles called the 1-800 number at Bilstein and asked for the valving on the Bilstein Saab 900 insert and it was about as lightly valved as the Volvo Bilstein so called HD, only shorter travel..
It is a given that when going shorter travel you go stiffer spring AND a stiffer valving to control the stiffer spring.
Bilsteins Saab 900 insert were valved about HALF the rate that you would expect to put a 300-325 spring on..


I guess making stuff function correctly isn't a big deal.
The Saab 900 spring rates vary between about 200-300# actually depending on model. 300# being the convertable and turbo springs offered. The shocks are the same for both vehicles.

I have access to a shock dyno and have done various testing in the past with different setups on (not volvo/saab specific) but have have done vw, mazda, toyota, ohlin race, blistein, and koni's is what I've had experience with. Is it the ideal setup? No. But will it work, yes. Yes a koni yellow that is specifically valved for this will work 100% better for a race setup, but I also have to work within my customers budget. Buying shocks like that for him wasn't in the budget. That was my initial thoughts to him though.
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Old 05-18-2012, 05:34 PM   #12
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so would be using a Koni yellow of the same saab aplication have a good rate for shortened springs?
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Seems like the TB [performance mod] list is normally:
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Old 05-18-2012, 05:45 PM   #13
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Any concern over the rear spring coming off the upper seat while in droop? One jump over the railroad tracks and you're sunk.

I built ugly homemade upper seats from exhaust pipe and pieces of sheet metal. I'm using a helper, tender, and main spring. Goal was to keep the rear tires on the ground in cornering and also lower the rear a lot. This accomplished both, and I can lift the car w/o worrying about the spring coming off the seats. I don't plan to catch air, but the car does get light over the crest at Summit Point Shenandoah, so that's my practical reason for wanting the springs to stay put.

http://www.pbase.com/towerymt/image/127283285.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/towerymt/image/127283287.jpg
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Old 05-18-2012, 05:48 PM   #14
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Mr. T

I'm a little lost in how the helper spring and main spring stay on, well, whatever it is you made that attaches at the body end...

Help a brotha' understand.
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:18 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=dj55b;4178781]
Quote:
The Saab 900 spring rates vary between about 200-300# actually depending on model. 300# being the convertable and turbo springs offered. The shocks are the same for both vehicles.
Oh. Really. That would be between 200 and 300% stiffer than comparable size and weight performance Euro cars with struts...

Source?

Additionally that would mean the Bilstein "HD" inserts would be severely underdamped.
One of the things Saab does better than Volvo and many others is get their suspension well matched spring to damper...at least that is what I have seen in my extremely limited experience owning performance Saabs for just the last 32 years and talking with key people in their old Sport and Rally Department.
Quote:
I have access to a shock dyno and have done various testing in the past with different setups on (not volvo/saab specific) but have have done vw, mazda, toyota, ohlin race, blistein, and koni's is what I've had experience with.
That's nice.
But if a insert is valved at something like 180/65 as the Bilstein ()) "HD" is, and is expected (the valving tells you what spring will work) to be mounted with a 100-110 lb/in spring, which is the approx spring rate on many 2700lb cars with similar f/r weight,

tell us what the result will be when using a spring 200 to 350% stiffer.


Quote:
Is it the ideal setup? No.

Well yeah but emphatically no would be closer to it.

Quote:
But will it work, yes.
Define "work".
While you're at it, what did you say insert travel was? I must have missed it. I would guess about 6" or around 155-160mm. But Shirley you know, no point in guessing.
And what is the useable travel in that 350 lb 8" spring?
3"? 2.75"?

Quote:
Yes a koni yellow that is specifically valved for this will work 100% better for a race setup,
If you like the typical extremely harsh high shaft speed spikes typical of Konis, but having mostly worked on 96, 99, and real 900 Saabs I've welded enough broken shock mounts, particularly the uppers, so I leave Konis untouched (and have dismounted them for customers who mistakenly replaced their good Sachs or Bilstein OEM shocks with the dreaded Konis)
Quote:

but I also have to work within my customers budget.
I can understand that customers have budgets, but throwing a mis-mash of horribly underdamped stuff on just doesn't seem like something I'd want to do, especially since I have a house to lose and family to feed.
Quote:
Buying shocks like that for him wasn't in the budget. That was my initial thoughts to him though.

Maybe you could explain better that matched spring and damper and making cars work at designed ride height is better..

Myles who I mentioned was all set to pull the trigger on some equally grossly mismatched junk for his nice turbo road car and I suggested he go for a ride in a mutual friends car with correctly valved and sprung for gravel use.
He did and on a twisty 14 mile asphalt road....When he called it was like when a Brazilian futbol player has made a GOAL!!!!
He was raving "That thing has a junk yard B230 normal aspirated motor---the BAD YEARs---and we were going so much faster down this road than I could ever do in my turbo EVER!!!!!! AAAARRRRGHHH!!!!!!......(on and on for 10 minutes) I CAN'T BELIEVE IT"

Then I asked if buddy Al had mounted up road tires...nope on gravel tires...

Matched works, unmatched doesn't "work".
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:24 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by DurableSwedish View Post
so would be using a Koni yellow of the same saab aplication have a good rate for shortened springs?
In all liklihood, no.
OEM replacement is going to be valved for whatever OEM springs are..

Double or tripple your springs, you must up the damping in both directions..

Konis in particular nobody has any idea what they are valved at, or what the test velocity is.
(Now doing lots of suspension builds since 1973, and revalving Bilsteins since 1975, I'd be willing to bet Konis shock dyno speed is slow, well under 0,52 m/s.. I'm guess that because they are across the line from '60s era bikes to 90s era car suffering from bad spikes on high shaft speed bumps, like pot holes. I don't see how they could miss horrible spiking like that unless they simply never run them at higher shaft speeds.)
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