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Old 03-01-2017, 08:06 PM   #1
ZVOLV
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Default Won't boost, misfires, stalling, hard start.

1990 940 Turbo. I just did the head gasket.

UPDATE: Fixed It! I found a loose hose clamp at the throttle body.

I can usually get the car to start after excessive cranking and I even drove it for 20 miles but it just would fall on its face when I got into boost realm.

Stalls at stops and misfires a bit at idle and won't really stay running on its own.

I'm gonna give it the full shakedown but this is just a side job in somebody's driveway far from home or the shop so my resources and patience are limited. Especially after working all day and messing with this thing Iin the dark on the drive home.


-Starts and runs but you can't really drive it
-stalls and sometimes won't even restart.
-when it is drive able it won't boost
-misfires at idle and stalls after a bit
-compression is all above 130-150 or so on all 4.
-no codes yet
-runs worse with maf unplugged
-no change with temp sensor unplugged
-doing a cylinder drop test it usually stalls and Def drives worse with a cylinder disabled. Doesn't matter which.


I don't have all the answers guys. I cam probably get it sorted out with time but just seeing what kinda ideas you guys throw at me as far as where/how to diag.
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:24 PM   #2
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I asked my lead tech and he says to start with a running compression test and vac test. I really have a feeling the lower end is toast. It got so hot it melted the timing cover, burned a hole in the head between two cylinders.

A leak down test was also suggested.


Cranking compression seemed a little bit lower on the middle holes and they are the suspect ones.

The misfire at idle is a big clue to me that it's not something like a boost leak.

Last edited by ZVOLV; 03-01-2017 at 08:32 PM..
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:33 PM   #3
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You can put a scope on the plug wires and see what each cylinder is doing from a burn standpoint. This is next level diag though.
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3/4", make everything as heavy as possible for no reason. It's also 4:1 compression ratio because that's how cosworth did it in 1978.
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:34 PM   #4
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Why did you even re used that engine if it over heated that bad?
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:38 PM   #5
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You can use a Leakdown Tester to check the health of the rings and the valves. It is really a useful tool.

https://buy1.snapon.com/products/dia...s/eepv309a.asp
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:40 PM   #6
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Check the CKP with a cheap hantek scope and a laptop, see what the waveform looks like. Youll want to look for a cleanish 60-2 pattern

https://www.amazon.com/Hantek-HT6022.../dp/B009H4AYII
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:40 PM   #7
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This guy has a fairly good diag thread you should look into to get you started

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=316437
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Old 03-01-2017, 09:08 PM   #8
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I think they drove it much further than I thought while hot. People lie about this things.
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Old 03-01-2017, 09:42 PM   #9
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Never trust the owner.
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Old 03-01-2017, 09:43 PM   #10
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Probably has melted ringlands
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Old 03-01-2017, 09:47 PM   #11
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I'm sure you have already done this and have suggested this trick multiple times, but have you checked the plug wires by spraying them with water? The only reason why I say this is because prior to my head gasket blowing and overheating, I had just replaced the wires with brand new Bougicords (which never did fit quite right in the first place). Well, after installing the new head gasket, it didn't seem to run any better, and after throwing more parts at it, I decided to spray down the plug wires and start the car at night. As soon as it started, I could see numerous blue arcs of electricity!

Upon further inspection, I noticed that some of the insulation on the Bougicord set had been mis-formed from the excessive heat causing the electrical energy to pass.

They've since been replaced and the damp/cold start problems/ hesitation are gone.

You state that the timing cover was melted. Could other components in the area too be suffering from some melting? Just a guess, and I hope that you are able to fix it in a speedy manner!
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:21 PM   #12
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^^^^Thank you. Today was lots of wrenching. Trans services, oil changes, some light diag, and I finally got the pitman arm off a 4 runner steering box after 4 days of attempts with pullers, torches, air hammers and finally full body swings with the mini sledge got it off! I don't give up easily!


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Why did you even re used that engine if it over heated that bad?
I don't run into this problem very often and when I do, we usually replace the whole engine with a used one with a warranty for this exact reason. I'm just helping out a good buddy and we took a chance and I have a feeling its not going to pay off this time.


I'm asking you guys for diag suggestions. B ' s will end up on th IL.

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Old 03-01-2017, 10:34 PM   #13
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Ignition components are suspect but I don't/try not to, throw parts at a problem anymore. I could see sparking in the dist but not sure if it was the spark just jumping the gap.

I even reused the old plugs but I probably shouldn't have.

Looking at the old head tonight with my 40 year veteran tech he said he had never seen a head melted thru between two cylinders like that before! He gave me a couple other ideas

I usually get a car to start on the first try after a big job. This one'sstarts but just has no power and dies all the time. I checked for airleaks. Airleaks would cause the no boost but not the misfire at idle. The car does surge at idle sometimes but really really ddoesn't act like an airleak.

Ha, last head gasket job I did at the shop was on a Subaru and first try oil sprayed everywhere from the HG. THIS can be put on upside down and the oil passage had no gasket material and it made a big mess
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:40 PM   #14
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It got so hot it melted the timing cover, burned a hole in the head between two cylinders.
dude.
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Old 03-02-2017, 01:11 AM   #15
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I put a an 88 760 back together that blew molten aluminum into the exhaust manifold. It had burned thru the combustion chamber wall and the only thing left near the exhaust valve was the seat. It alsomelted the timing cover, possibly, I forget, but THAT one ran after a head swap.

old $1000 car....meh...it's worth tossing a junkyard head at it to see what happens.


Short of popping a piston out, what would you tbrickers do to test the bottom end?
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Old 03-02-2017, 01:24 AM   #16
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http://www.cpomilwaukee.com/milwauke...6H6BoC2NPw_wcB
$104
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Old 03-02-2017, 01:54 AM   #17
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He had the head off already.....
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Old 03-02-2017, 01:55 AM   #18
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I've seen EXACTLY what you described Zach, got a pic of the head on my phone. Guy drove the car (91 745T) for several hundred miles, said it was making a weird noise but drove okay. Finally caught on fire at the gas station what mocha spewed from the coolant tank onto a hot turbo.

The root cause...running uber-lean from a dead in-tank and dying main.

I'll second the scope on the plug wires. Also clean the RSR, and check fuel pressure.

You already check the AMM-turbo hose that always melts? Vacuum leaks?
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Old 03-02-2017, 02:00 AM   #19
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plugs/plug wires
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Old 03-02-2017, 03:28 AM   #20
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Thanks Gselss.

This thing won't even rev in neutral without sputtering on the snap. Its way worse than a vac leak. Heck, I dunno if it even runs anymore! It even made some nasty clacking noises when I first started it.

I'm gonna try ether to rule out anything fuel related. It has no test port for fuel pressure but I could get a rig going.
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Old 03-02-2017, 06:16 AM   #21
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Every good penny you throw at this baked bitch is gonna be thrown after the last bad one. F'k it. Roached// Might not be this bad but you should have seen clues with the head off?



Find a good used engine and save yourself a lot of anguish.

Spare time: Pull the dead carcass apart and see if anything's salvageable.
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Old 03-02-2017, 09:48 AM   #22
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Wtf is with people driving volvos so hot that they stop running? Your symptoms seem similar to the gold 91 244 **** show that we did the head on. And like I said, but didn't officially prove, the block was warped and or cracked.

I bet the motor is roached. It may still chooch but it'll never be like before.
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Old 03-02-2017, 10:20 AM   #23
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I guess I haven't really had this problem before because I don't destroy my stuff.

I'm gonna start with what my lead tech said to do:

-Running compression test: must be at least 50 psi
-Leak down test
-Vacuum gauge

I learn a lot from the lead tech at each shop I work at. Any time I cant figure something out quicly , under an hour, I get to pass it up to the next guy and learn how he does it.

Maybe I should bust out the 4 channel pico scope and do pressure transducer analysis. Don't have pressure transducer, but I eventually want to learn how to find mechanical issues with one.
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Old 03-02-2017, 10:48 AM   #24
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So far what you're describing still sounds like a vacuum leak. I've picked up a car and fixed a couple that were like that, when the AMM-turbo hose was mush and had a hole in it or had come off the turbo. The one I bought the guy said he could barely get it started, wouldn't go with any throttle, would just die, wouldn't snap, nothing with any kind of load, and it idled like crap. Made the deal, put the hose back on the turbo, drove the car home without issue, actually ran pretty good, even in bewst.
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Old 03-02-2017, 11:58 AM   #25
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Intake hoses are fine. I have had em on and off many times now and they are good.

I brought a can of starting fluid with me today. That would help rule out any mechanical or ignition issues if I can get it started and keep it running.
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