home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & suspension

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-17-2005, 06:22 PM   #1
MikeSr.
Finish it, Flounder
 
MikeSr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Acworth, Ga. USA
Default Stroker kit-non- penta

I am speculating whether a B230 stroker kit could be put together with some off the shelf parts. I noticed that Sten Parner has a kit that has Venolia pistons and Eagle rods. The rods look very much like small block Chevy 6" rods, which can be found on E-bay all day long.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...953352954&rd=1

$329 for 8!

I also e-mailed Venolia asking about their piston combos. No answer yet.
Why buy from SPM and have the $$ exchange rate kick your ass?

Last piece would be stroker Marine crank. Despite many inquiries on this board and elsewhere, I cannot find a Marine crank, so I'm thinking an offset grind on a stock crank.

There has to be a cheaper way to get this combo than SPM.
I know about the old posts on various combos, but I don't want to reinvent the wheel, just copy a succesful setup.
Any thoughts?
__________________
I coulda had a V8!
MikeSr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 06:37 PM   #2
pbonsalb
Board Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Default

It is theoretically possible, as you recognize. I have yet to read of any successful setups that you could copy, though. You won't be reinventing the wheel. Others have thought of the same in the past and some in the present, but no one has yet done it to my knowledge.

People have used Buick or other pistons. People have used Chevy rods. People have offset ground cranks. Maybe some combination of the above would work.

Those $329 sets of Chevy rods are probably no stronger than our stock late B230 rods. Due to economies of scale, however, you can buy a set of eight strong Chevy rods for less than the cost of a set of four custom Volvo rods. Figure out what combination to use and split the sets and you might have something.

Philip Bradley
pbonsalb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 07:01 PM   #3
Boosted2003
Board Member
 
Boosted2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cocoa/Pensacola, Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Those $329 sets of Chevy rods are probably no stronger than our stock late B230 rods. Due to economies of scale
Also if you think that 600hp out of 8 pistons and rods dont have have as much stress put on them as 4 pistons and rods would.

well even performance chevy 350 connecting rods dont cost that much

Problem is the crank pin (journal) and wrist pin diameter is off.

Crank pin on the rods are nearing 1/4 inch larger then volvos crank shaft. I wouldnt feel very safe running 3/16inch thick bearings.

The piston pin is about .12 inch to large.



Now the ? is will eagle rod charge just to alter the 350 rod design to make it fit in b230 motors.


The Nissan VG30 or 300z twin turbo or the Ford 4.6l are closer in correct size then chevy 350 rods.

Last edited by Boosted2003; 02-17-2005 at 07:19 PM..
Boosted2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 07:23 PM   #4
davidmacq
Bored Member
 
davidmacq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Clarksville, TN
Default

Well with SPM you are paying for him figuring it all out I guess. Would be nice if someone had his kit so we could have the info. Maybe it would be smart to talk to him about distributing his products over here. Not sure how much he sells in the US, but if someone would agree to send him back some cash for each set he sells or something. Maybe we could talk to him about like a Tbricks group buy. We get a group together to send him money, and he sends us specs. Now if he makes the rods himself, I guess it wouldn't be possible to save the custom costs, but he does know all the dimensions for the correct stroker setup. Where is veniola made? hmm
davidmacq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 07:34 PM   #5
Dr. Volvo
Board Member
 
Dr. Volvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norway
Default

Quote:
I noticed that Sten Parner has a kit that has Venolia pistons and Eagle rods.
The rods from SPM isn't Eagle rods!
__________________
242L 1976-2003R.I.P.

'74 mod. 242L (Currently under restoration)
Installed now: Nothing at all
Coming soon:
B21ET Block bored to 94.0mm, '87 740 Motronic injection, Garret T3 trim 60, Alu M46
Dr. Volvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 08:37 PM   #6
Boosted2003
Board Member
 
Boosted2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cocoa/Pensacola, Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Volvo
The rods from SPM isn't Eagle rods!
Yeah, I know. He makes them himself I recarll reading a swedish forum.
Boosted2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 09:04 PM   #7
245gti
Adapting Stuff
 
245gti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted2003



Now the ? is will eagle rod charge just to alter the 350 rod design to make it fit in b230 motors.

They won't....BTDT...
__________________
Dale
245gti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 09:06 PM   #8
cst805
is so rude.
 
cst805's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: sunny california!
Default

I gots me a stroker crank from a friend that runs a marine shop, specializing in volvo penta i'll ask him if he has any more cranks layin around.
Could one re-use the stock pistons? but they would only be good to so much power, right?.
cst805 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 10:09 PM   #9
MikeSr.
Finish it, Flounder
 
MikeSr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Acworth, Ga. USA
Default

I would definitely be interested in a marine crank if you can find one.
MikeSr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 10:29 PM   #10
davidmacq
Bored Member
 
davidmacq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Clarksville, TN
Default

I'd be interested in a crank too. No the penta pistons aren't optimal for turbo use. B230 pistons aren't the right fit either.
davidmacq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 10:30 PM   #11
PRVersion
regretting name change
 
PRVersion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Portland
Default

yeah i think that makes most of us. but then you wouldnt have a non-penta stroker kit, now would you?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxJenoxX View Post
PRVersion wins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgothan View Post
accelerate til the last possible moment, then accelerate more...
PRVersion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2005, 11:42 PM   #12
cst805
is so rude.
 
cst805's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: sunny california!
Default

Well i just got back from the marine shop and chatted it up with mike and helped him drop the tranny in his talon, and yes he does have more cranks! still in the block and i cant really see what condition there in, but they are there. most of them had corroded cylinder heads from being used in the ocean but most of the internals still look good.

So theoretically could i cut some metal off the marine pistons for them to fit the block? but that would kind of defeat the purpose of bumping the displacement with the bigger crank eh?
I'm not really sure what i'm talking about here, someone break it down for me please, the only reason i have this crank cuz i heard someone say its good /\/\/\/\/\/\K4Y (<--- leet)
cst805 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 01:47 AM   #13
davidmacq
Bored Member
 
davidmacq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Clarksville, TN
Default

The marine pistons are the right size, but aren't designed for turbo use.
davidmacq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 03:11 AM   #14
linuxman51
ARRRRHARHAR
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 245gti
They won't....BTDT...

i'm not going to split hairs here, but a while back there was a gentleman with a 242 who did up a b21/23 with chevy pink rods and a large amount of nos. if you can control rod float at the piston, you can run the smaller journaled rods (or, conversely, if you get the crank welded up you can as well, but that kinda offsets the cost of cheaper rods).
fwiw, i can get a set of eagle h beams for a chevy 350 (either 5.7-b23 or 6.0-b230) for $250 at the local performance shop, they claim "you aint gonna break em" but then again, there aren't any domestics around here making much over 600.
__________________
"They bum rushed them in their own crib, they drank all their beer, they partied with their ladies and they left with the trophy"

Megasquirt Tuning!
Plug and play LH 2.4 Megasquirt, now with stealth mode!
linuxman51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 07:05 AM   #15
pbonsalb
Board Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Default

People have fitted Eagle rods for Talons into B23s with stroker cranks. I think they used custom pistons.

The Chevy wrist pin is a fine mod. We used it with my Crower rods and Arias pistons. It makes the machine shops comfortable. They are familiar with it. The big end is the problem. You need to weld and (perhaps, offset) grind the crank down to something adaptable. People have suggested the Honda big end size. Others have suggested Mitsu 4G63, but I never looked seriously into this. You could also have float issues. Dick Prince made his custom rods wider at the big end for his race B230 16V Turbo. You could probably do some fancy crank work (maybe not much more work if you are welding and grinding already) to narrow the journal to fit some adaptable stock rod.

I will be watching this and similar threads, as will others. A few people have Penta 2.5 projects in the works.

Philip Bradley
pbonsalb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 07:10 AM   #16
Unregistered
Guest
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb
People have fitted Eagle rods for Talons into B23s with stroker cranks. I think they used custom pistons.

The Chevy wrist pin is a fine mod. We used it with my Crower rods and Arias pistons. It makes the machine shops comfortable. They are familiar with it. The big end is the problem. You need to weld and (perhaps, offset) grind the crank down to something adaptable. People have suggested the Honda big end size. Others have suggested Mitsu 4G63, but I never looked seriously into this. You could also have float issues. Dick Prince made his custom rods wider at the big end for his race B230 16V Turbo. You could probably do some fancy crank work (maybe not much more work if you are welding and grinding already) to narrow the journal to fit some adaptable stock rod.

I will be watching this and similar threads, as will others. A few people have Penta 2.5 projects in the works.

Philip Bradley
Could this be done DIY with a home stick welder, or flux cored mig? I am really on a tight budget so I figure the most moeny saved is the best route. When you say grinded... can you do this with common sandpaper? Is offset meaning to go against the grain of the metal?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 08:52 AM   #17
245gti
Adapting Stuff
 
245gti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51
i'm not going to split hairs here, but a while back there was a gentleman with a 242 who did up a b21/23 with chevy pink rods and a large amount of nos. if you can control rod float at the piston, you can run the smaller journaled rods (or, conversely, if you get the crank welded up you can as well, but that kinda offsets the cost of cheaper rods).
fwiw, i can get a set of eagle h beams for a chevy 350 (either 5.7-b23 or 6.0-b230) for $250 at the local performance shop, they claim "you aint gonna break em" but then again, there aren't any domestics around here making much over 600.
I was merely stating that Eagle won't make custom rods...nothing else.

I've been researching this exact thing for a while now...........

Ask Dick Prince about running piston-centered rods... Seems to me he split some bores doing it that way. My machinist doesn't think welding up the crank is a very good idea and I trust his judgement.

Still working on finding a combination that will actually work...
245gti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 09:38 AM   #18
horse
Board Member
 
horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bloomington, IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Could this be done DIY with a home stick welder, or flux cored mig?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
When you say grinded... can you do this with common sandpaper? Is offset meaning to go against the grain of the metal?
No.
__________________
Brickless not heartless
horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 10:03 AM   #19
pbonsalb
Board Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Could this be done DIY with a home stick welder, or flux cored mig? I am really on a tight budget so I figure the most moeny saved is the best route. When you say grinded... can you do this with common sandpaper? Is offset meaning to go against the grain of the metal?
Solder and a bench grinder would save the most money. Don't worry about the grain of the metal if you are trying to save money.

Philip Bradley
pbonsalb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 10:44 AM   #20
PRVersion
regretting name change
 
PRVersion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Portland
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb
Solder and a bench grinder would save the most money. Don't worry about the grain of the metal if you are trying to save money.

Philip Bradley
too funny.

so your friend has more cranks, how much would the going rate be?
PRVersion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 11:07 AM   #21
Boosted2003
Board Member
 
Boosted2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cocoa/Pensacola, Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turboluv
too funny.

so your friend has more cranks, how much would the going rate be?
Yeah
Boosted2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 11:35 AM   #22
MikeSr.
Finish it, Flounder
 
MikeSr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Acworth, Ga. USA
Default

I am aware of all the challenges. I just am curious, of all the stroker setups mentioned here, Dave Barton is the only one I know of that is running. Could all of you guys out there update us on the progress of your setups?
My thought is to match a rod that is stronger than stock that is close to the size we need to a custom offset ground crank and use a piston with a long skirt to control rod position,but with a turbo dish and valve reliefs.

That said- if I could get a marine crank, it would be my first choice, so put me down for a crank if they become available. I already have an L block with squirters.
Thanks to all the guys who share info-PB, Dick Prince, etc.
MikeSr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 03:10 PM   #23
Hoggster
Sacred Chao
 
Hoggster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NC
Default

For my stroker project:

I got a Penta AQ171C crank form ebay. You can find them there cheap but it takes some patience. I payed like $225 for mine with rods and chewed up pistons. The crank is forged too.

I will be using Penta pistons as well. I'm waiting to order them until I have the block bored (clean up) so I can be sure to get the right oversize. The CR is like 9.5:1 which is less than the B230f+t CR so I think it'll take to boost just fine. Penta pistons (AQ171C) have valve relifs cut already so it will allow use of a 16v head. AQ151C pistons are good for 8v applications.

I know this thread is exploring non-penta options but I think that Penta parts are probably the cheapest and easiest as they don't need modification. The avalibility is the only real limiting factor here but just keep looking....they are out there to be had.

I'm also planning on being able to swap stronger pistons/rods in at a later time.
__________________
'86 744 GLE - Stock, DD
'85 744 B230+16v - LeMons #75
'82 242 B21MPG - Chop top
'87 244 DL - Budget +T build
'95 964 - Taxi cab
Hoggster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 04:07 PM   #24
Captain Bondo
Exklusiv Zubehör Klub
 
Captain Bondo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Default

Lol Phil. JB weld and a dremel.
Anyways what Phil is trying to say is that stroker and "tight budget" are in general a contradiction. The cost you pay for an extra 200-300cc's is such that it only makes sense if you have money to burn. Otherwise I would focus on improving breathing and engine management.
__________________


-Kenny
(I crushed a 240 with some stuff done to it. Honest.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Turbobricks isn't a car forum any more. Its a forum for lame kids.
Captain Bondo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2005, 04:19 PM   #25
JohnLane
Board Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Northern Washington
Default

JB Weld on the crankshaft........Hmmmmmmmm..........

Dremel tools...........Well they have their place.

I'm interested in one of these cranks. 2.5 liters should be just the ticket for the Hornetcar....We will get that turbo back on boil just that much faster for.........MORE TIME SIDEWAYS!!

Note that I'm not worried about the rod/stroke ratio for the Hornetcar.......
It IS the Hornetcar for Chrissakes!!

Heehee.

JohnLane.
__________________
Overkill is consistently more fun.
JohnLane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:37 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.