Just the beginning.... 8.8 ford swap.

[Captain Bondo]

Here's an assload of pics of my 8.8 saga.

I narrowed it myself, cut the brackets off of my old diff, and welded 'em on. Painted er up.

I'm waiting for my adjustable torque rods and panhard rod to show up so i can put it back in the car.

I'm tired and I don't even know where to start when it comes to talking about all of the ions and outs of this, or my car project in general.

I also finished the adapters for my brakes today. 355x32mm brembos. hehehehehe...

Anyways the pics are here. It's a proper clutch type posi. Don't mind the ugly diff cover, it'll get a nice alloy one with proper tension bolts for bracing the carrier bearings.

Again I'll explain it all later.
For now, the pics are here. Feel free to ask questions- this will be a semi- article. Plan was to write a step by step, but this is not a typical do-it-yourself type of project, so I don't know if it should be portrayed as such. kids will be driving around with the diffs falling out of their cars.

Enjoy. You guy will like the 14" brakes and deep dish 18" work wheels better next week!

http://www.pbase.com/capnbondo/88_swap

[Tom Wiley]

Nice welds

[Bigbegum69]

cool stuff. glad someone did it. my lazy ass needs to get moving.

[qwkswede]

cool stuff.
What car is that 8.8 from? Im sure its not a mustang with that funny mounting tab cast on the top of the pumpkin.

[Captain Bondo]

Diff is from a '99 ford explorer, as this is the easy way to get the clutched posi and disc brakes.
One axle is 2-15/16" longer than the other (the pumpkin is not in the "middle" of the diff) so I simply shortened the offending long axle tube 2-15/16" and now run two of the shorter axles.
The diff ends up around 1.5" wider than stock, and it is 5x4.5" bolt pattern, so I can now run "normal" wheels (which in my case are 18x10.5 et14 and are going through customs as we speak ) without any adapters. Bonus.

Since the caliper adapters for the big brembos were soooo easy to make, i'll be on to modding my hubs (redrilling and reinforcing) so that they are also 5x4.5" next week as well.

Hope to have the suspension done and fenders pulled and etc and the car back on 4 wheels by mid may. Then I do the rest of the prep on the shell, rebuild the motor, paint it, wire it, drive the **** out of it.

[coldfusion21]

Since the caliper adapters for the big brembos were soooo easy to make, i'll be on to modding my hubs (redrilling and reinforcing) so that they are also 5x4.5" next week as well.

Im assuming your talking of your front hubs, being that now you currently have two different bolt patterns on your car?

[Captain Bondo]

Originally Posted by coldfusion21

Im assuming your talking of your front hubs, being that now you currently have two different bolt patterns on your car?

Of course. The brembo rotors are 5x4.5, my rear axles are 4x4.5, and my wheels are 4x4.5, so the last things to change is the front hubs.

This way I can run nice agressive offsets since I don't need adapters.

[linuxman51]

Originally Posted by Captain Bondo

Diff is from a '99 ford explorer, as this is the easy way to get the clutched posi and disc brakes.
One axle is 2-15/16" longer than the other (the pumpkin is not in the "middle" of the diff) so I simply shortened the offending long axle tube 2-15/16" and now run two of the shorter axles.
The diff ends up around 1.5" wider than stock, and it is 5x4.5" bolt pattern, so I can now run "normal" wheels (which in my case are 18x10.5 et14 and are going through customs as we speak ) without any adapters. Bonus.

Since the caliper adapters for the big brembos were soooo easy to make, i'll be on to modding my hubs (redrilling and reinforcing) so that they are also 5x4.5" next week as well.

Hope to have the suspension done and fenders pulled and etc and the car back on 4 wheels by mid may. Then I do the rest of the prep on the shell, rebuild the motor, paint it, wire it, drive the **** out of it.

When you say 1.5 wider than stock, is that overall or per-side?
What sort of suspension are you planning on running or will you just back-adapt the volvo stuff (seems kinda sad to do that, but perhaps for simplicity's sake)

[pwschuh]

Nice write-up Cappy. Very informative.

[chree]

Originally Posted by Captain Bondo

kids will be driving around with the diffs falling out of their cars.

To avoid this, do you have any interest in fabricating a second 8.8 for a fellow turbobricker? I have a suspicion 325 foot pounds of torque will destroy the 1041 I'm using... hoping the tires will break loose for now.

I have a spare 3.31 geared 1041 if I kill my current one... plus I still have a dead 3.91 geared 1031 I could chop up for mounts.

[Captain Bondo]

Thanks Paul!

Chree,

Problem is that I'm in Vancouver, Canada. I dunno what shipping a diff that far would cost, but I bet it'd be murder. A diff shop will narrow just one side of an 8.8 for like, $100 (honestly I wish I had just gotten a shop to do it, it was fun, but not worth my time).

I would measure and mark where all of the brackets need to be, and then just have a welding shop burn 'em on for ya.
It might make sense for me to explain the measuring process further for just this reason.



Kenny,
1.5" total, so 3/4" per side, or like 19mm spacers I guess. My rear wheels are 14 offset, so it'll be like having a -5 offset, which should be pretty damned close to fitting based on Rob's stuff.

I measured and recorded the angles of all of the brackets relative to the pinion flange on the dana 30 before I cut them off, and I welded them on the same way. But, the axle tubes themselves are so much bigger that the geometry is definitely no longer the same.

The main things are that the panhard mount is higher, the trailing arm brackets are lower (so the car is going to be almost 1" lower in the back), and the torque rods are also higher.

And you're toootally right. When I first started looking at it I was thinking "**** man, at this stage I might as well just can the volvo stuff entirely and adapt a 4 link kit for an 8.8..."
And I'm sure I could do it so it is really a shame to keep the volvo stuff, but for the moment I am.
I have been sitting on this project for too long and if I let it get too out of control it'll just never get done.

So I figure that since the brackets are at least more-or less in the same spots, worst case scenario is the adjustable torque rods/panhard won't have enough adjustment to locate the diff- in which case I'll just have to cut and re-weld or cut and extend and re-weld whatever offending suspension piece requires it.

[linuxman51]

aw damnit. I've got some math to do and some people to find. Thanks for the info tho, thats what i've been looking for.

[linuxman51]

ok its sounding like to get one the same width as a 740/940 axle you would have to lengthen one side by 1.25 inches (the short side), and shorten the long side by 1 11/16. now to find a shop that can do that...

[chree]

Originally Posted by linuxman51

aw damnit. I've got some math to do and some people to find. Thanks for the info tho, thats what i've been looking for.

Since Kenny may be too far I know someone who does this type of work and will be seeing him Saturday (he's in Georgia). I'll see what he says. I may take my dead 1031 to see if he wants to use it for mock up purposes.

[Captain Bondo]

It's easier to shorten than lengthen unfortunately.

I was looking at an 8.8 from I think it was a later crown vic- it was VERY wide and had really badass vented rear discs. They also often came posi too. Anyways it was ****in wide, but since it is from a car it might be 28 spline though, not too sure.

The explorer diff is pretty much the right width as-is for a 740- so it makes a guy wonder if you couldn't just hammer out the driveshaft tunnel a little bit and use the off-center pinion. I have no idea how that works- maybe bad juju?

[J_Jones]

why not just use a mustang rear? Both sides are equal length. You also have two choices in overall length because the 99-04 8.8's are like 1-2 inches longer than the 94-98. It will also have posi-trak and parts are readily available for them. Sure the mountings places are different but you cut and welded those anyway. The only problem I could think of would be the lack of a panhard bar mount but that is solved with a welder. So why?

fake edit:// ok so i just remembered that the explorer 8.8 is 31 spline while the mustang is 28, but being factory parts I doubt the 31 would have little if anything over the 28. Although you could upgrade to a 31 spline aftermarket positrak/locker unit without changing axles. ok rambling done...

[Captain Bondo]

In a nutshell, it is cheaper to narrow a 31 spline than to upgrade a 28 spline.

For me it made sense to go 31 spline and just narrow it, but if you see the narrowing as some huge problem (you shouldn't, because trust me it is minor compared to actually doing the suspension brackets, and cost-wise it's very cheap of you decide to farm it out).

If you don't care about 31 spline then use whatever for sure.

Not sure what you mean by lack of panhard mount, btw. Neither has a panhard mount. The panhard mount is part of the volvo torque rod bracket. It all transfers over as one piece.

In terms of LSD's if I find the Explorer one is not agressive enough, the carbon plate Cobra R lsd is an easy drop in for about $120 bucks.

HTH

[Crazychopstick]

Originally Posted by Captain Bondo

Enjoy. You guy will like the 14" brakes and deep dish 18" work wheels better next week!

I look forward to that thread.

[pgrey]

Originally Posted by chree

To avoid this, do you have any interest in fabricating a second 8.8 for a fellow turbobricker? I have a suspicion 325 foot pounds of torque will destroy the 1041 I'm using... hoping the tires will break loose for now.

My 1041 has been fine for 6-ish years with 440 ft/lbs. I'm using a very tight PowrLok.

Peter

[The Aspirator]

Originally Posted by Captain Bondo

In terms of LSD's if I find the Explorer one is not agressive enough, the carbon plate Cobra R lsd is an easy drop in for about $120 bucks.

HTH

Holy cow, a good Trutrack is like almost $400 these days, which makes this entire swap seem very tempting!

Great work man, truly top notch. When you gonna let me come over and take a peek?

John

[pgrey]

I'd be interested to know how much each diff weighed.

Peter

[Mueller]

very nice !!!

In the June '07 issue of Car Craft, there is an article on using the 8.8 for other vehicles, interesting reading and worth it I think for those looking to do the same thing....

For me, this is something I want to do since I currently have 17x8 Cobra R rims with the 5x4.5 BC and 25mm spacers/adapters....using an 8.8 could give me the correct hub to hub distance so that I could ditch the adapters in the rear....still trying to figure out a more cost effective method for the front to ditch those adapters as well

[240sleeper]

Originally Posted by Captain Bondo

The diff ends up around 1.5" wider than stock, and it is 5x4.5" bolt pattern, so I can now run "normal" wheels (which in my case are 18x10.5 et14 and are going through customs as we speak ) without any adapters. Bonus.

Since the caliper adapters for the big brembos were soooo easy to make, i'll be on to modding my hubs (redrilling and reinforcing) so that they are also 5x4.5" next week as well.

BEEN WANTING TO DO THIS FOR AWHILE NOW. LET ME KNOW HOW IT GOES!!!


JASON

[J_Jones]

"Not sure what you mean by lack of panhard mount, btw. Neither has a panhard mount. The panhard mount is part of the volvo torque rod bracket. It all transfers over as one piece. "

That's what I meant and I see now... good work and keep us informed

[fivealive]

very cool, amazing work. i can't wait to see it finished and in the car! good luck.