Ford 8.8 vs. Dana 30 weight comparison

[Captain Bondo]

Got a scale and weight the two diffs side by side tonight.
Dana 30 is 130lb
Ford 8.8 is 155lb

So around 25lbs heavier. Might make a difference to some people since it is unsprung I guess. For me solid axle just is what it is. Basically adds about the same amount of weight as my big brakes up front do.

[Bigbegum69]

is that with brackets and guts?

[blkaplan]

What innards for each?

with axles and hubs?

IMO 25 lbs is huge. The aluminum 1031's are 25lbs lighter then the steel 1031's that means its 50 lbs lighter.

any place i can save 50 lbs hot diggity dang, especially on the suspension.

[dl242gt]

Some of the wheel and tire combos that people upgrade to are adding a bit of weight. Can't be much worse than if you go from Virgos with 195/60-15 to Polaris replicas with 215 or 225 wide 17" tires.

[Captain Bondo]

This was with axles and hubs but no brakes (the brakes are pretty much exactly the same so I wouldn't expect them to skew things much.)

We all know that this sort of an upgrade represents certain tradeoffs. Like I said, the 355x32mm rotors add a similar amount of weight. You do what you have to. 25lb for a diff that isn't a joke and has a real posi, good aftermarket, and is a useable bolt pattern without adapters or weirdo wheels works for me.

Within the context of a street car with 500+ ft.lb. and a driver with a certain reputation for savagery the tradeoff is worth it to me. But I agree this certainly isn't for everyone- the car or the diff. Not something grandma needs in her '89 DL.

If it were a race car it would probably be either aluminum or IRS or both. Falls into the same category as the 4-link someone mentioned in the showroom thread. Could I build one? You bet, but I want to actually drive this thing sometime this year, so you have to just draw the line at some point and use what will do the job. The the dana 30 has proven to me multiple times that it won't unless I am willing to either weld it or use a locker/spool/torsen. boo. I'll take the crab juice, err, the 25lbs.

In reality there are countless cars with 8.8's and even 9" rear ends that would kill anything any of us could hope to build, unsprung weight or not.

edit:

oh, pics to the swap for this that didn't see the other thread:
http://www.pbase.com/capnbondo/88_swap

[945ti]

That isn't bad. Been wanting to weigh an aluminum Jeep 44 for a while. It is fairly close to a 900 series in track and most of the guys who dislike them break them bending them around rock crawling. Yours is the foard exploder flavor with discs eh? My 1031 was fairly heavy with all the hardware on it. Gutting it of brakes and axles and the carrier made quite a difference.
I may have found an aluminum 1030. Might work well behind my 140hp welded...

[BB-Q]

This may be the way forward for me- as it's one of the few axles I could probably find in the UK.
That's assuming the Ford Explorer we got over here was the same as the Explorer you got over there.

[JW240]

Originally Posted by 945ti

I may have found an aluminum 1030. Might work well behind my 140hp welded...

ok. interesting. from a volvo? I cant believe my eyes. any chance i can find one here in europe?

[BB-Q]

Originally Posted by JW240

ok. interesting. from a volvo? I cant believe my eyes. any chance i can find one here in europe?

I think I saw one in my local Volvo breakers. I'll have a look for you.

[mikep]

25 pounds that might mean finishing a race or getting home from SE after doing a burnout is cheap insurance.

Seeing sprint car lose a major sponsor because a bolt failed and put it out of a race is sad. Finding out that the bolt in question was a titanium bolt with half the head ground down for weight savings is kind of funny.

[JohnLane]

Kenny I gaurantee you that my 9" with the 35 spline axles weighs more then the 8.8 thing.

With the correct dampning you will have to be one of those guys from another planet (serious Karts, F1 and the like) to notice the increase in unsprung weight in the rear axle.

This is one that I am considering putting under the Volvo.

Your 355x32 rotors will not be heavy if you are using the good circle track stuff on aluminum hats. My rotors+hats are surprisingly light.

[Captain Bondo]

I really wanted to do two piece rotor, but I got an insane deal (like $1K less than I've ever seen them sell for) on a one piece brembo Gran Turismo kit, so eh what can ya do.

Luckily though the rotors are the only thing different between the one piece and two piece kits, so when the time comes to replace the rotors I can buy the floating ones and keep everything else.

For the rear damping I have koni yellows that are REALLY stiff one the stiffest setting, I've only ever had to run them on medium, so do I have a bit of wiggle room there as well.

The aluminum Dana 44 is an interesting option for a 740 for sure. For a 240 it means narrowing both sides and getting custom axles, so I shied away. But you're right, for a 700 it's about right. What does it have for brakes?

[945ti]

Originally Posted by Captain Bondo

The aluminum Dana 44 is an interesting option for a 740 for sure. For a 240 it means narrowing both sides and getting custom axles, so I shied away. But you're right, for a 700 it's about right. What does it have for brakes?

Shyte for brakes in most Jeeps like my roomates grand cherokee. Some heavy POS drum nastiness. The new SRT-8 jeep thing uses what I'd deem plenty adaquate vented or solid (depends on year I think) rear hardware that one could adapt different calipers to if one wanted since the ears and backspacing look pretty workable.

How hard was your brake adaptation so far? Exploders have drums no?
And yeah, too wide for a 240. Looks pretty much perfect for my granny wagon...we'll see how long the latest 1041 lives hehehehe.....not as short lived as the danas behind 90hp B21Fs so far....

[Captain Bondo]

No, 96+ explorers have discs in the rear with the exact same style of e-brakes, so the brakes are dead easy- just have to attach the very ends of the exploder ebrake cables to my stock ones, and use the fittings from the exploder on my hardlines (just cut the volvo ones off, slide the exploder ones on, and re-flare. I should have most of that all reassembled this weekend.

[pgrey]

Thanks for posting these.

Peter

[blkaplan]

Originally Posted by Captain Bondo

Within the context of a street car with 500+ ft.lb. and a driver with a certain reputation for savagery the tradeoff is worth it to me. But I agree this certainly isn't for everyone- the car or the diff. Not something grandma needs in her '89 DL.

If it were a race car it would probably be either aluminum or IRS or both. Falls into the same category as the 4-link someone mentioned in the showroom thread. Could I build one? You bet, but I want to actually drive this thing sometime this year, so you have to just draw the line at some point and use what will do the job. The the dana 30 has proven to me multiple times that it won't unless I am willing to either weld it or use a locker/spool/torsen. boo. I'll take the crab juice, err, the 25lbs.

Within reguards to a street car, Its definitely a viable option. When I speak of competition my mind instantly goes to cone squashing, where liteness is king.

I don't understand your comment about having to run a limited slip in a dana 30 to make it last? So what? If you have enough power and dedication to blow an open diff the increase in traction alone makes it worth doing.

--Ben

[Captain Bondo]

Originally Posted by blkaplan

I don't understand your comment about having to run a limited slip in a dana 30 to make it last? So what? If you have enough power and dedication to blow an open diff the increase in traction alone makes it worth doing.

--Ben

Oh, no an open diff would last longer. Maybe I explained that badly- I definitely want and need a posi. What I was trying to say is that you pretty much need to run a locker or helical posi with a 30 (or weld it) because the spider gears and cross shafts are junk- so you need a system that eliminates those. I want a clutched posi- which the 8.8 gives me. Hope that makes sense.

You're worried you won't be able to conesquash as well? Would it actually make a huge difference when driving around a smooth parking lot at autocross speeds? What do you actually expect it to effect within the context of an autocross? I would agree that on a really fast roadracer where you are really moving fast on irregular surfaces it gets harder to keep the wheels following the road surface- but I'm having a hard time grasping what the grievous problem is within the context of autocross unless you're just saying you don't like the weight in general, in which case, that's up to you I guess.

I can just see someone doing this swap and losing an event and going "crap, you know it really just feels like the diff is about 25lbs too heavy."

[JohnLane]

Kenny hats can (and should be.......here is the opportunity!!) be made. John V have you done this yet? 'Tis a good project for someone who has the abilities to do so.
The rotors are silly cheap out of the circle track catalog and are light!! Gotta make up that 25 pounds that cost us the conesquash don't ya know...

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by Captain Bondo

You're worried you won't be able to conesquash as well? Would it actually make a huge difference when driving around a smooth parking lot at autocross speeds? What do you actually expect it to effect within the context of an autocross? I would agree that on a really fast roadracer where you are really moving fast on irregular surfaces it gets harder to keep the wheels following the road surface- but I'm having a hard time grasping what the grievous problem is within the context of autocross unless you're just saying you don't like the weight in general, in which case, that's up to you I guess.

The biggest and best lot we autocross on has more bumps and waves than the local road courses. It's not consistantly bumpy, but there are spots where the pavement transitions, or just areas where the surfaces dips or rises slightly, in addition to being on a gentle slope. Sometimes these irregularities occur on corner exit, which is part of the issue. Almost all acceleration is not in a straight line, so the suspension has to be able to get the power to the ground while also turned and handling surface changes. I've only driven on three different road courses, but none of them had near the same level of surface inconsistancy as a typical autocross lot. I don't know that anyone could notice the 25lb difference, but it's possible that it could show up as hundreths or even a tenth of a second difference, since the weight will affect all aspects of the car. Every bit helps when it's a race car, but if it's not a race car, then reliability and longevity are far more important.

25lbs for a stronger axle and/or a GOOD posi is worthwhile.

[mikep]

Originally Posted by towerymt

25lbs for a stronger axle and/or a GOOD posi is worthwhile.

I happen to have a good posi for an 8.8. And one for a GM 10 bolt.
I have welded diffs in stock, too. /scrapplehenke

[blkaplan]

Originally Posted by Captain Bondo

You're worried you won't be able to conesquash as well? Would it actually make a huge difference when driving around a smooth parking lot at autocross speeds? What do you actually expect it to effect within the context of an autocross? I would agree that on a really fast roadracer where you are really moving fast on irregular surfaces it gets harder to keep the wheels following the road surface- but I'm having a hard time grasping what the grievous problem is within the context of autocross unless you're just saying you don't like the weight in general, in which case, that's up to you I guess.

Kenny,

The fact that its on the suspension makes it worse but I am really not after that fact, its weight in general. All the fastest autox cars are reallly reallly light. As you decrease the weight you put less load on your components. IE a 3400 lb 240 is more likely to break drivetrain then a 2400 lb 240.

Its easy to drop these cars to a level (a/c, powersteering, sound deadening) once you get passed that you are kind of stuck. Adding weight to the axle IMO doesn't sound like the best solution. But this is for autox. For road racing the added durability would probably make it worth it.