home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > maintenance & nonperformance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-14-2021, 12:27 AM   #1
TheLoganZilla
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Morris County, NJ
Question B230FT Stuck under 3000 rpm

My first post on this site; greatly appreciated the information I've managed to find here, but I just can't seem to get a solid read on this particular problem I'm having. Currently, I am on a road trip in my 1993 Volvo 940 Turbo. A day or two ago I was accelerating on the highway when all of a sudden I got a large backfire and the engine started lurching. I let down on the throttle and it went back to normal. Ever since then, the engine has absolutely refused to break 3000-3100 rpm. If I give it half throttle and build boost, it's happy up 'til 3000, then I get pops and lurches; if I roll into in gently at highway speed, the engine just stops climbing at 3000. There are no other changes to how it runs; starts the same, idles the same (a little lumpy but never stalls), and drives the same below 3000 rpm. If I have the car in park it'll rev happily up to redline, but not when it's under load. I checked the codes and its throwing a 3-1-1 code indicating the speedometer, but the speedo works fine when I'm driving. Could that code be a cause or an effect of the problems I'm having? I also checked the airbox and intake piping up to the turbo for obstructions but found none. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated as I would rather not blow up my motor in the middle of a trip.

Mods include:
3" decat turbo-back exhaust
td04hl-19t turbo (13c crapped itself after 200000 miles)
IPD lowering springs
Bilstein shocks all 4 corners
Poly front bushings
Oil Catch can installed to assist with oil in the intake
TheLoganZilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2021, 12:02 PM   #2
Toupe454
Board Member
 
Toupe454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cleveland, OH
Default

Might be a big boost leak. My 740 Turbo did similar things when I left the charge pipe between the intake manifold and intercooler disconnected on accident. The first backfire might have even been a pipe or coupler giving out.
Toupe454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2021, 12:29 PM   #3
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

you gotta wideband? what's the AFR's.

usually popping and lurching is lean. where ya at right now?
__________________
"They bum rushed them in their own crib, they drank all their beer, they partied with their ladies and they left with the trophy"

Now with in-house Dyno tuning!

Megasquirt Tuning!
linuxman51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2021, 08:56 PM   #4
2 old for this
Board Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Amarillo and the Sanger de Cristo mountians
Default

Have a competet assistant power brake it, stand on the brakes and open the throttle while you check for boost leaks under the hood. DO NOT STAND IN FRONT OF THE CAR.
2 old for this is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2021, 09:04 PM   #5
TheLoganZilla
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Morris County, NJ
Default

I have an AFR gauge in my possession and have the sensor installed, I just havenít had an opportunity to install and wire up the gauge as Iíve been on the road. Thatíll be the first thing I do when I get settle somewhere for a few days. Only reason I donít think itís a boost leak is because I have a boost gauge and itís holding vacuum no problem and doesnít seem to be having any trouble building the boost up until the car stops revving.

On an interesting note, today, the car acted slightly different from the other days. Without me changing anything that I can tell, it will now make it up until about 4000 rpm if I go gently. It will still miss if I stomp on it, but for some reason itís decided to go up to 4000 otherwise. Iím going to thoroughly inspect the piping tomorrow in the daylight for breaks, and Iíll recheck the codes as well. I think that the car is running rich too, as my tail pipe is quite sooty and thereís a decent amount of white smoke coming out of the exhaust. My gas mileage has dropped slightly as well. That AFR needs to go in pronto. It seems that this may be a compound issue, or at least a very large one. I just hope it isnít spelling the end of the car as I have big plans for it.
TheLoganZilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2021, 09:05 PM   #6
TheLoganZilla
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Morris County, NJ
Default

I do not currently have an assistant I can use to check for leaks that way unfortunately. I wonít be somewhere I can get real help for another couple weeks. I have to make it Wyoming first.
TheLoganZilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 08:41 PM   #7
2 old for this
Board Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Amarillo and the Sanger de Cristo mountians
Default

Look at all the inter cooler hoses. You might find one split.
2 old for this is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2021, 09:55 PM   #8
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

You probably have a torn hose somewhere. Common places are at the turbo inlet, IC outlet coupler (remove the hose and check), and the idle air hoses.


OR the common soggy turbo inlet hose sucking shut.
__________________
No Start Thread

Last edited by ZVOLV; 02-15-2021 at 10:05 PM..
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2021, 12:27 AM   #9
TheLoganZilla
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Morris County, NJ
Default

I just replaced all of the hoses in the whole bay, so hopefully, it isn't a split. I'll take them off to check though. I'll also put a couple of hose clamps around the inlet hose to try and keep it from collapsing. I will report back with findings soon.
TheLoganZilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2021, 03:08 AM   #10
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

I have had issues with loose hose clamps being tough to find.


You could spray around with various substances and see if the idle changes.


You say there was "loud boom" and NOW runs poorly.......... probably a hose ruptured or came loose

Last edited by ZVOLV; 02-16-2021 at 03:30 AM..
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2021, 01:13 AM   #11
TheLoganZilla
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Morris County, NJ
Default

A couple new developments. The problem has gotten worse, unfortunately; now the car will effectively not accelerate at all. If I give it more than a quarter throttle the engine bogs and starts to stall. I was barely able to limp it to Alabama. However, on the positive, it threw a new code that gives me a new direction to go in. I got a 2-2-1 code, indicating a very lean mixture while at partial throttle. This would explain the way it was acting and gives me some new ideas. I will continue to go over every hose I can get my hands on to make sure there are no leaks or bad connections. But this also indicates that some part of the fuel sending/pressure system is faulty, or the AMM is no good. Does anyone have suggestions for testing some of the parts in question: fuel pump, fpr, AMM? I’m basically stuck in Birmingham until I can get this fixed, so any help is greatly appreciated.
TheLoganZilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2021, 01:17 AM   #12
TheLoganZilla
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Morris County, NJ
Default

Also, on a side note, I don’t think that the sound I heard was a hose rupturing. One, I just replaced all the hoses save for the IAC hoses in the whole bay, tiny vacuum hoses included. And two, the sound came from the rear of the car, and I could replicate it by pressing down on the accelerator quickly; I believe that the noise was actually a backfire coming from the exhaust caused by the lean condition.
TheLoganZilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2021, 10:13 AM   #13
bobxyz
Board Member
 
bobxyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Boulder CO
Default

Try a power balance test. At idle, disconnect one injector at a time and see if all the cyls behave about the same. You may need to give it some gas if it's not running well.

If one cylinder makes little or no difference, check the injector and plug wiring carefully for that cyl. Have you used a compression tester before (if not, ask or google)? If you have one, or can borrow one, a compression test would help diagnose the problem.

Another simple test, on a cool engine, would be to disconnect the air filter to turbo intake hose and, using your fingers, see if the compressor wheel spins freely and can't be shoved over enough to cause binding.
bobxyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2021, 10:40 AM   #14
TheLoganZilla
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Morris County, NJ
Default

I did a compression test right after I got the car. Each cylinder was hovering right around 150 psi. And while I was putting hose clamps round the turbo inlet pipe I also checked the compressor turbine for play. It has just a little bit of radial play, but it’s not a ball bearing turbo so that’s unsurprising. I plan on taking sons time to unplug a bunch of stuff on the car while it’s running to try and coax out a broken part. I’d also like to do a fuel pressure test, but I don’t have a gauge on me. I’ve heard that these cars require more specialized fuel pressure gauges to test?
TheLoganZilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2021, 10:49 AM   #15
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLoganZilla View Post
A couple new developments. The problem has gotten worse, unfortunately; now the car will effectively not accelerate at all. If I give it more than a quarter throttle the engine bogs and starts to stall. I was barely able to limp it to Alabama. However, on the positive, it threw a new code that gives me a new direction to go in. I got a 2-2-1 code, indicating a very lean mixture while at partial throttle. This would explain the way it was acting and gives me some new ideas. I will continue to go over every hose I can get my hands on to make sure there are no leaks or bad connections. But this also indicates that some part of the fuel sending/pressure system is faulty, or the AMM is no good. Does anyone have suggestions for testing some of the parts in question: fuel pump, fpr, AMM? Iím basically stuck in Birmingham until I can get this fixed, so any help is greatly appreciated.
if you can get it about 80 miles south we can do the full run up on it and probably sort it all out in an afternoon, I'm down in montgomery but I can't really escape during the week
linuxman51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2021, 11:02 AM   #16
JohnMc
PV Abuser
 
JohnMc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: St. Louis
Default

Possibly a plugged muffler (if you have one)? I've had exhaust issues on two cars (145E had a muffler collapse internally and block 95% of the flow, and a cracked coil pack melted the cat on my old Jetta GLX with a similar level of blockage) - both acted fairly similarly. With a weird inexplicable 'rev-limiter'.
__________________
'63 PV Rat Rod
'93 245 16VT Classic #1141
JohnMc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2021, 01:05 AM   #17
TheLoganZilla
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Morris County, NJ
Default

Ok, new development. Got in contact with a gentleman near me willing to help me out on short notice. Did a fuel pressure test, and not to my surprise, it read quite low on idle. While the fpr was plugged in, it was at about 25 psi while idling, then when unplugged it shot to 35. Tried squeezing the fuel line exiting the fpr and the fuel pressure started to spike, so I thought it was the regulator. I replaced it with another 3 bar regulator from inter motor (I know it isn’t super high quality but I don’t have the luxury of waiting for a nice unit to arrive). At first it seemed to do nothing, however, on the second time I started the car up it cleared up and drove like it had originally: not perfect but I could build boost and rev out to redline while accelerating. So I thought I had it. However, just tonight, on the second drive I’ve taken it on since it cleared up, it’s back to backfiring and being stuck under 3000-3500 rpm again with the backfires under heavier acceleration. I still think it’s fuel system related and I plan to do another pressure test when The gauge I ordered arrives at my next stop, but I wanted to document this and ask for any more advice you guys have. Are there any other parts in the fuel system I should replace besides the pumps? Is there any possibility now that you have this new information that it isn’t fuel related? Should I pony up for a leak down gauge or a compression tester?
TheLoganZilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2021, 02:43 AM   #18
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

I would pressure test the induction system. I use an expensive smoke machine. The new one we have is thousands of $$$. Cheap ones are hundreds of dollars.

On the cheap, maybe rig a vacuum cleaner on reverse and BLOW into the intake and listen/feel around for leaks. Others here have had luck with a cap from Home Depot clamped into the intake hose at the MAF and adding some shop air to pressure test.

At 0 inches vacuum/boost the fuel pressure is what is listed on the FPR. Under a vacuum, the pressure is LESS. Under boost, the pressure is HIGHER than listed on the FPR. I think you may be looking in the wrong direction re: fuel pressure.

Failure to rev is usually really retarded ignition timing, or really lean mixture.

Does it rev freely in Neutral/Park?


It could also be a dead MAF, but I doubt it based on the symptoms. You could put a meter on the signal OUT of maf and rev the engine and see what happens. But that is a rather inconclusive test.

Based on experience, you have an air leak. Have you sprayed around with brake cleaner/propane/hairspray/starting fluid and see if the idle changes or stalls.
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2021, 11:09 AM   #19
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

fuel pressure without vacuum applied to the regulator should be around 44psi (3 bar).

how bout this, can you get video of the car acting up?

have you disconnected the battery cables and allowed the lh to clear it's trims? (pull the positive off, touch it to negative, let it sit for a minute or two)
linuxman51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2021, 12:58 PM   #20
h20ham
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: W. Kootenays BC
Default

I like this smoke machine, $10
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tixozqgSwN0
Have you tested resistance in your relays, yes. Non working relays still click. The important thing in a relay, like a circuit breaker in a house. There can be arcing. Once you get enough carbon deposits, the resistance goes up to the point of no current.
Can’t recall, if you’ve tested your fuel pressure regulator, or put in new plugs.
h20ham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2021, 03:42 AM   #21
TheLoganZilla
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Morris County, NJ
Default

Only reason I suspect the fueling is because of that statement you made in your post ZVOLV; the fuel pressure should be 3 bar when the fpr is unplugged. When I tested it before replacement, it was not, it only made it to about 2.4-2.5 bar, or 35 psi. I should be able to recheck that tomorrow as well to see if it has improved. I also don’t think that it is an air leak, though I will try to find a way to pressurize the system to check. My vacuum levels while idling are normal, about 20 mmhg after warming up in park, this is exactly the same as before I started having the problem. Secondly, like I mentioned, it is a strangely intermittent and fluctuating problem. It seems that every time I start the car just about, the car acts one of three ways: it has no power whatsoever, has power in the low end up to 3400 ish and then goes no higher, or it behaves about normally with maybe a small misfire here or there around 3500. I can also see that I am not losing boost when the car is in that third possible state. I’m going to try to get a video tomorrow of the car driving with me attempting to accelerate so that you guys can see exactly what is happening. Also, yes, the car does rev normally while in park, not sure about neutral though. I am also going to check my plugs and the fuel pump relay. Would it be worth taking off the timing cover to see if the belt has skipped?
TheLoganZilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2021, 07:24 PM   #22
spock345
Board Member
 
spock345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Default

I encountered this problem when I tried to run NA injectors on a +T to limp the car to another storage place. So I am going to wager it is a problem with the system not delivering enough fuel.
__________________
1967 122s, B20F, M40
1989 240 B230F (V15 cam, chipped EZK), M47 (Lost a fight with a Chevy express van)
2012 VW Tiguan 6 speed auto (oh the joys of carbon buildup).
spock345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2021, 08:34 PM   #23
dl242gt
Happy playing the blues
 
dl242gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
Default

Follow the symptom. Your fuel pressure is low. The fuel pump is bad or maybe it's a clogged fuel filter. If you do replace the pump. Put a new filter on as well. Be very careful with the short hose that goes from the pump to the filter.
__________________
Dave,
1982 242 turbo. 338k miles. MVP coilovers and 3" exhaust. Flowed 405 with a V15. Cossie turbine housing with upgraded compressor housing. 90+, IPD remote oil filter. Some other goodness, too. Been lots of fun over 25 years. Restored in 2k. Now ready for a 2nd restoration.

1993 245 Classic, 435k miles, enem V15. IPD bars and chassis braces. Simons sport exhaust from Scandix. sbabbs ezk chip. Been a good road warrior. Genuine Volvo rebuilt leaky M47.
dl242gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2021, 10:15 PM   #24
mhgreen
Board Member
 
mhgreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Portland, OR
Default

I had some wacky weird symptoms kinda like this in an '85 BMW that turned out to be the fuel filter .
mhgreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 03:34 AM   #25
TheLoganZilla
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Morris County, NJ
Default

Well, after much finagling with the wiring under there (the connector style had been changed from oem) I was able to get the pump on, working, with no leaks; I had replaced the filter a couple days ago. The last person to replace the pump clearly used some cheap aftermarket brand, it didn’t even have a part number, so it crapped out. This seems to have solved many of my problems too, more than just the rpm limit. It idles better, less smoke out of the exhaust, and drives much smoother. Glad to have this one figured out; time to move on to the next problem out of an endless list, I can always find things to improve. Thank you everyone for your comments; hopefully this thread helps someone else in the future.
TheLoganZilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:53 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.