home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-29-2021, 02:05 AM   #1
TR Conn
Board Member
 
TR Conn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long Beach, Ca
Default Megasquirt - I gave up

After a 4 plus year losing fight with Megasquirt I decided to try another tack.
I will admit that when I began the odyssey with Megasquirt I knew very little about after market fuel injection. It was a worthwhile and fairly expensive learning experience. But I never learned enough to get it right and consistent.
I pulled all of the Megasquirt equipment and wiring, except the fuel pump and surge tank.
Ordered a Holley Sniper TBI 2300, I think this is the answer. I mounted it to a Weber DGV manifold with a home made adapter, routed the fuel and wiring (2 hoses, 4 wires), it fired up on the first crank.
If youre not familiar with the sniper it is basically a 2 bbl carb replacement that will self adjust to just about any engine up to 350hp. All of the necessary parts are built into the TBI body (TPS, IAT, MAP, IAC and the ECM). The kit also included the O2 sensor and ECT sensor. There are 4 bbl models for even bigger engines and single bbl for smaller engines which might have been adequate, but someone on the site says that overkill is always better, a philosophy I embrace.
The biggest obstacle I ran across was the throttle linkage (this is mounted in a 58 Duett with a B20). I utilized the throttle cable linkage from a 144E.
I havent noticed any real power gains, but it starts right up, runs well, doesnt bog down or lug and has a nice even idle.
There is customization possible within the software, but it runs well out of the box.






__________________
Feedback thread:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=246561
TR Conn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 05:24 AM   #2
OttoB
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: E(Seattle!Vancouver! San Francisco!LA!) Helsinski
Default

Nice, how is mixture divided between cylinders? Does the spark plugs have same colour?

What kind of triggering you are using?
OttoB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 09:48 AM   #3
volvowagoon
Board Member
 
volvowagoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Franklin, IN
Default

Nice!
__________________
Feedback - https://forums.turbobricks.com/showt...ht=volvowagoon

1986 Buick Grand National - Restored to stock
2002 Camaro V6 T5 +T - The trashy car that's fun to drive
2010 C30 T5 - The boring but trusty daily - 199k
1989 245 DL - The boring but not trusty daily - 233k
IG: @v6buick
volvowagoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 11:04 AM   #4
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

those sorts of systems do ok as long as you don't look under the "hood". I'd leave the controller/dongle alone and just carry on.
__________________
"They bum rushed them in their own crib, they drank all their beer, they partied with their ladies and they left with the trophy"

Now with in-house Dyno tuning!

Megasquirt Tuning!
linuxman51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 11:13 AM   #5
fastcomet
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Default

Looks pretty nice; I here ya on megasquirt, I was blind to it and lost. But plenty of people on here helped me out. If I did it again would I go a different route? Probably not the others are to expensive. Im getting where I can adjust the tune with computer. If you told me 4 yrs. ago I would be doing that with computer. I would of said you are crazy. LOL. Anyways Im glad you have a setup that works for ya. How much did cost out of curiousity.
fastcomet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 01:00 PM   #6
Broke4speed
Board Member
 
Broke4speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marionville, Ontario, Canada
Default

Holley is whoring that setup out to virtually every automotive channel on Youtube, it's insane.

The fact that they work 'so well' is a clear indicator that 99% of people's issues are related to bad wiring/grounds/install with other systems, IMO. Because MS was cheap, people thought it was easy...and it's not any easier than any other EFI system out there.

I've thought about picking up a Sniper system like above though, because it's a very novel and compact design.
__________________
1984 244/ AQ140A / M46
Broke4speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 01:31 PM   #7
MikeSr.
What, me worry?
 
MikeSr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Acworth, Ga. USA
Default

Holley has a system that works with tech support. I used MS but was always worried about troubleshooting the ecu.
__________________
I coulda had a V8!
MikeSr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 01:35 PM   #8
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke4speed View Post
Holley is whoring that setup out to virtually every automotive channel on Youtube, it's insane.

The fact that they work 'so well' is a clear indicator that 99% of people's issues are related to bad wiring/grounds/install with other systems, IMO. Because MS was cheap, people thought it was easy...and it's not any easier than any other EFI system out there.

I've thought about picking up a Sniper system like above though, because it's a very novel and compact design.
There is a lot of truth in the wiring comment.

they don't work that well though, you just don't "see" the problems most of the time until you try and do anything other than whatever it's basic setup is. I will say, the hardware isn't bad at all, the software and some of the implementation suffers greatly (and I've almost replaced the control unit on some with a microsquirt so that it would work consistently and tune out).

I get the allure, but honestly.. a decently setup carb would get you the same things just about all the time.
linuxman51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 01:38 PM   #9
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSr. View Post
Holley has a system that works with tech support. I used MS but was always worried about troubleshooting the ecu.
yeah, this is not a bag on all things holley at all.. the term-x is a badass little unit, and their bigger offerings are just that much better
linuxman51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 01:52 PM   #10
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

and to be fair as well, the older megasquirts are more prone to be finicky than the newer stuff.
linuxman51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 02:24 PM   #11
dalek
Benchracer Tribe
 
dalek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange Alert, NC
Default

I have a 1.1 -- the only one I ever bough -- somewhere in a box
__________________
"you can't leave your thingy hanging in public... you can get arrested."
"What's Arkansas supposed to be, Kansas for pirates?" Forg
"I think I can touch the tire. Damn! I can touch the tire! That hurts!" 240Psycho (on the back seat of my 94 Jetta while I was driving to a J/Y)
"Use the barbed adapter like what I use to inflate the air camping mattresses and my dates." FTF Engineering
i am inspired. i will replace my windsheild... with an intercooler.swedishK
Feedback!
dalek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 03:23 PM   #12
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
There is a lot of truth in the wiring comment.

I get the allure, but honestly.. a decently setup carb would get you the same things just about all the time.
I definitely see the upside to the TBI carb conversions. Slightly better temp and altitude correction, and lambda feedback for mixture control.

I've been wanting to try the Edelbrock Pro-Flo 4 EFI kit out, as it's solves a bunch of the power hurdles with a 5.slow efi system. 4bbl air throttle body with direct port injection. I'd just want to play around with the software before fully committing to it.

https://www.edelbrock.com/edelbrock-...nes-35930.html
__________________
Cult Person. Pissing in your Kool-Aid.
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 06:30 PM   #13
Super1800GTR
Board Member
 
Super1800GTR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lanesville IN
Default

I’m in a similar boat. I’ve toyed with megasquirt on multiple projects over the years but could never get it quite right for a daily/weekend driver. I like the idea of the Holley kit as a replacement for a worn out carb. I’m about to swap out a pair of worn out SU’s on my Amazon for a brand new DGV (because it was free) but I really want to go the fuel injection route.

What’s your fuel pump/surge tank setup? The adapter plate looks pretty straight forward too! I might be copying this over the winter.

Rob
Super1800GTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 06:54 PM   #14
MikeSr.
What, me worry?
 
MikeSr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Acworth, Ga. USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
and to be fair as well, the older megasquirts are more prone to be finicky than the newer stuff.
I had two MS1s- one worked fine, the other died after a week- still in a box in the garage
MikeSr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 06:58 PM   #15
TR Conn
Board Member
 
TR Conn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long Beach, Ca
Default

Thanks for not ripping me apart on this. As far as originality, I just can't leave things alone. As for appearance, I think a single downdraft looks more at home on a 1958 car than the dual SUs. 95% of people have no idea what they are looking at anyway.

Do the spark plugs have same color?
Very close, #4 “seems” to be a bit lighter. This has always been an issue with the DGV manifolds. There is no charge stealing because all of the intake air has atomized fuel.

I'd leave the controller/dongle alone and just carry on
There are a couple of settings that need tweaking. For example, for a 4 cyl. the priming pulse as it comes is metered for a V8 and it is quite a gush of fuel.

What’s your fuel pump/surge tank setup?
The surge tank is pictured in the last photo above. It is fed by the mechanical fuel pump and uses a Bosch 044 fuel pump (Overkill for sure). The pump feeds the injectors after a fuel filter then to the built -in fuel pressure regulator, back to the surge tank then there is an overflow back to the main fuel tank.

Last edited by TR Conn; 07-29-2021 at 07:06 PM..
TR Conn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 07:16 PM   #16
mikep
The MP
 
mikep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38 27' N 75 29' W
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
There is a lot of truth in the wiring comment.

they don't work that well though, you just don't "see" the problems most of the time until you try and do anything other than whatever it's basic setup is. I will say, the hardware isn't bad at all, the software and some of the implementation suffers greatly (and I've almost replaced the control unit on some with a microsquirt so that it would work consistently and tune out).

I get the allure, but honestly.. a decently setup carb would get you the same things just about all the time.
Yep. I was looking at Patches recently, the last time that 2TC ran it was on a modified 2gc rochester, and I looked at the 2gc TBI. But I'll probably fire it up on a carb because it works, mostly.

wiring...sigh... as good as I can sometimes be at wiring (I've been teaching it for way too long), sometimes I get stung by overlooking the stupid stuff. A harness that has been beat on, or corroded grounds. It all has to be right, no breaks. So much attention is paid to the fused side, but it's all a loop. One weak link and you're toast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalek View Post
I have a 1.1 -- the only one I ever bough -- somewhere in a box
partout? partout? partout? /seagull
__________________
mikep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2021, 10:06 PM   #17
Harry Tuttle
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: in your ducts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
I definitely see the upside to the TBI carb conversions. Slightly better temp and altitude correction, and lambda feedback for mixture control.
And one other big thing: it is not metering the fuel by sucking all the air through a small hole.

That thing looks pretty cool, and well executed by the op.

Edit: I don't see any pics of an ecu, but I see wires. There is one, somewhere...? Or is it self-contained
__________________
I came into this game for the action, the excitement. Go anywhere, travel light, get in, get out, wherever there's trouble, a man alone


Quote:
Originally Posted by sbabbs
just gutless low compression k-junk

Last edited by Harry Tuttle; 07-29-2021 at 10:12 PM..
Harry Tuttle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2021, 08:39 AM   #18
mikep
The MP
 
mikep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38 27' N 75 29' W
Default

The ecu is *cue scary music
COMING FROM INSIDE THE CARB!!!1
(really, its all self-contained)
mikep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2021, 08:49 AM   #19
linuxman51
BRANDSCHUTZVORSCHRIFTEN!
 
linuxman51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: mont, AL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TR Conn View Post
Thanks for not ripping me apart on this. As far as originality, I just can't leave things alone. As for appearance, I think a single downdraft looks more at home on a 1958 car than the dual SUs. 95% of people have no idea what they are looking at anyway.
I mean.. at the end of the day it's your car, your project, and your time. You have to live with it, might as well get it how you want it.
*points at alternator* "It's supercharged!"

Quote:
Do the spark plugs have same color?
Very close, #4 seems to be a bit lighter. This has always been an issue with the DGV manifolds. There is no charge stealing because all of the intake air has atomized fuel.
cool re: the plugs. pretty good burn pattern on them?


Quote:
I'd leave the controller/dongle alone and just carry on
There are a couple of settings that need tweaking. For example, for a 4 cyl. the priming pulse as it comes is metered for a V8 and it is quite a gush of fuel.
I can imagine so haha. some of the other systems have a very specific cranking regiment.. you turn the key on, wait some period of time (like 5 or 7 seconds, maybe even 10) or it flat out won't start and will just flood the engine. if you wait too long, same thing--this was not on a holley though, this was a fitech private label. Had the same issue on a bigger fitech unit on another car, and have heard from a number of good tuners that the fitech stuff (not to be confused with FUEL tech) is pretty roundly garbage. On the upside, their ecus are not mounted in the 'carb', so replacing the part that sucks isn't a very big deal. Have heard mixed reviews regarding the snipers, similar tunability issues though not as bad. The package/sensors/concept is solid, the implementation is what tends to suffer.
linuxman51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2021, 10:20 AM   #20
Chuck W
Board Member
 
Chuck W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Indpls, IN
Default

I've built 2 MS units. One for my TBird, probably 15 years ago (Old MS1 V2.2 running the "Extra" code) and another MS1 V3.0 that was in my '80 240. Had decent luck with both (The TBird unit was my first major electronics project...ever), learned a lot. The TBird is still running on that ECU (driven it 3 times in the past week) and the 240 is still running on it, but I sold it a couple years ago.

Have a MaxxECU for my next 240 project and have been dabbling in Motronic M4.4 tuning/flashing for our 850's.

If I wanted something "discrete", these Sniper kits look like a decent option.
__________________
'78 264GLE
'97 854 T5 (Manual swap/COP/16T/P2R brakes)
'80 264GLE (B21FT/M46/MS) - SOLD '77 242DL (B21F/M45) - SOLD '75 245DL SOLD '85 244GLT DEAD
'83 Tbird Turbo (2.3T/T5/MegaSquirt)
My feedback thread
Chuck W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2021, 10:51 AM   #21
Cwazywazy
Single jingle
 
Cwazywazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Granby CT
Default

I like my MS2. Really appeals to the side of me that likes to constantly tinker and improve. I've spent countless hours on my tune, I can't imagine ever calling it "finished"

I kinda wanna try some other standalone EMS and see how they compare. Carbs are cool too, I recently got a used Holley 1850 to replace the Autolite 2100 on the Ford.

But nothing's cooler than kjet
__________________
I don't know what I have
Cwazywazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2021, 02:36 PM   #22
Alan29
Board Member
 
Alan29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Tampa, FL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwazywazy View Post
But nothing's cooler than kjet
True. The average temperature of a kjet controlled engine over a typical year is much lower given its inability to run for extended periods of time.
__________________
Signature.
Alan29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2021, 03:04 PM   #23
dl242gt
My car is fun hp club
 
dl242gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan29 View Post
True. The average temperature of a kjet controlled engine over a typical year is much lower given its inability to run for extended periods of time.
LOL Well the kjet in my 82 turbo has been running well for over 20 years. But after helping a friend many years ago with a megasquirt install. I know the kjet leaves a good chunk of power on the table.
__________________
Dave,
1982 242 turbo. 338k miles. MVP coilovers and 3" exhaust. Flowed 405 with a V15. Cossie turbine housing with upgraded compressor housing. 90+, IPD remote oil filter. Some other goodness, too. Been lots of fun over 25 years. Restored in 2k. Now ready for a 2nd restoration.

1993 245 Classic, 435k miles, enem V15. IPD bars and chassis braces. Simons sport exhaust from Scandix. sbabbs ezk chip. Been a good road warrior. Genuine Volvo rebuilt leaky M47.
dl242gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2021, 12:52 PM   #24
Cromlech
Board Member
 
Cromlech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Gloucester, ENGLAND
Default

That's a cool way to do it.
Cromlech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2021, 03:57 AM   #25
adamdrives
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Jose
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan29 View Post
True. The average temperature of a kjet controlled engine over a typical year is much lower given its inability to run for extended periods of time.
Man, that's cold
__________________
Feedback thread
78 242 DL m46 swapped
83 245T npr ic, ipd cam, 15g
05 S60R m66 do88, ipd, snaab stg2
adamdrives is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:28 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.