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Old 02-10-2013, 06:04 PM   #1
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Default Stu Spencers 245

Or maybe I should call this thread "K-JET HELL"?

Anyway, the 245 that Stu did such a nice job on is now mine.



Now perhaps it shouldn't be here in Projects and Restorations, but the reality of the cars present condition vs when Stu finished is striking.

A short list perhaps?

1) The original fan controller stopped working. No big deal, but rather then remove it, someone just cut the wires to the controller and the sensor bulb.

2) It idle's HIGH!

3) Knocksense was part of the original build, but the sensor is no longer connected to the block. Instead, it's just zip tied next to some wiring under the intake manifold.

4) The boost gauge seems to be stuck with a very limited range of motion reading no less the 5 in and no more the 3 lbs.

5) The Saab APC circut it seems has been cut out operationally (it's still physically in the car). Come to think of it, (and never mind all the crud I cleaned off the solenoid this morning) it needs the knock signal to operate. See #3.

6) Since the APC is still plumbed in but not operating, I haven't the faintest how much boost the car is making. Look at the boost gauge you say? See #4 above.

7) The MSD 6AL is just sitting there. No longer hooked up. No longer operating.

8) There is a rumble when pulling away.

9) There is an odd sound from what seems like the front left when in reverse. This and number 8 is beginning to seem like a bad mount.

10) Neither of the rear doors open. Should've asked I guess.

11) I think the car sat for a while. There appears to be moss in some places! I've never seen a car with green 5h1t growing on it, but here we are. It's on the seals for the tail lights, the rear gate, and even in the rain gutters on the roof of the car.

Am I going to make any changes beyond the fixes? Yes. Two of them. Those being to a T04E 50 trim (it's a Super 60 in there now), and just a little bit of rolling of the rear wells to clear 215's or 225's.

I also have some cooling concerns. PDX isn't anywhere near as close to hell as the south east is so I don't really have faith in electric fans that don't have shrouds. This is what's in now.



I'll prolly change to something with a shroud and a two stage controller.

Honestly, I think it would look amazing with black wheels. Hell! I have a set of 18x8 Ronals that would look amazing on it. They are Poi's old wheels that I had powder coated.



But if I do that, I'd also like to put on some adjustable perches for the rear springs.

Lastly, if I decide that the AFR in the car now is not trustworthy, then I'll move the stereo from the existing high location to the lower one and put a triple gauge cluster across the top.

Once the workshop is setup, I'll get to work and get some more pics up.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:52 PM   #2
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Just a few weeks ago I was thinking about this car, wondering where it went...
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:14 PM   #3
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I think it sat in some bushes for a while with a giant white dog living in it.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:39 PM   #4
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Does this car still have his LED air/fuel gauge? I've always wanted to reverse engineer that thing - especially how and where it is hooked up. Where the heck is horizons cave?
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:51 PM   #5
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Does this car still have his LED air/fuel gauge? I've always wanted to reverse engineer that thing - especially how and where it is hooked up.
Yep. Still works too. It's not the best location though. You really want it to be an at a glance thing and the times when you should be taking guick glances means you don't want to avert your gaze that far down from the windscreen.

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Where the heck is horizons cave?
I'm an old anime fan. Ignore that.

In over in Raleigh. http://www.caraleighmills.org/index.html I work in Cary and am over there a lot it seems.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:09 AM   #6
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Any idea who the manufacturer of the Sunroof is ? Is it electric or manual ?
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:41 AM   #7
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Any idea who the manufacturer of the Sunroof is ? Is it electric or manual ?
It's electric. There is some documentation on it in the glove box. I'll take a look at it and let you know.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:32 PM   #8
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Yep.
So it's a narrowband or wideband?

High idle generally makes me think vacuum leaks. Forgive me as I don't recall the engine. It still has the kjet injectors? What intake/throttle body does it have?
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:45 PM   #9
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Wow. Blast from the past. Glad it's being saved.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:53 PM   #10
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So in some spare time I did some more reading about the car and came across the part where he disconnected the knock sensor on purpose and was no longer using It or the Saab APC before he sold it.

OK... At least that's sorted. I'm now going to resort to less complex means of boost management.



That's a 3 Bar racing two stage controller. I'll buy that and put it in a box until I'm finished with the 744.

From yesterday morning, while looking for vacuum leaks I think I may have found one in the CBV line. I hope that's it! I'll dig into that more tomorrow.

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So it's a narrowband or wideband?
Are we getting our threads mixed up?

Haven't figured it out yet, but I can't believe there is. But if so, there's more going on in this car then is documented.

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High idle generally makes me think vacuum leaks. Forgive me as I don't recall the engine. It still has the kjet injectors? What intake/throttle body does it have?
Yeah, I agree.

It's a modified B230 manifold / tb. He plugged the injector holes and did some other things to make an LH 2.2 TPS work and fit a KJET IAC motor.

Still has K-Jet injectors.

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Wow. Blast from the past. Glad it's being saved.
Yeah, me too. I always saw pics thought it was gorgeous. Just my luck it came up for sale when I was looking for another one.

Last edited by BDKR; 02-11-2013 at 06:40 PM..
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:48 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by BDKR View Post
Are we getting our threads mixed up?

Haven't figured it out yet, but I can't believe there is. But if so, there's more going on in this car then is documented.
I know I know.

If it's only got LEDs it's most likely a narrowband. I would ditch that post haste and put a proper wideband in.

The reason I asked about the injectors was so that you don't forget to replace those 8 injector seals. A trick learned from RWC: stick them in some gas to make them swell up properly.

The intake: You'll get some extra horsie power from installing a B21F intake. I think there is an idle screw on your manifold. That may need to be adjusted but I would track down the vacuum leaks (if there are any) before touching that.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
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I know I know.

If it's only got LEDs it's most likely a narrowband. I would ditch that post haste and put a proper wideband in.

The reason I asked about the injectors was so that you don't forget to replace those 8 injector seals. A trick learned from RWC: stick them in some gas to make them swell up properly.

The intake: You'll get some extra horsie power from installing a B21F intake. I think there is an idle screw on your manifold. That may need to be adjusted but I would track down the vacuum leaks (if there are any) before touching that.
if you do replace the a/f gauge - I'd love a chance to see how the Stu version is wired and what compenents it is made from.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:41 PM   #13
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Hello fellow north carolinian. I have schematics for the led based af meter . Heart of the circuit is a lm3914 two 4.7kohm pots a 10mohm resistor and 10 leds. Im right down the road from you. Chapel Hill. If you need the circuit built or need the schematics.
Unit is fed from an EGO or HEGO sensor. You can build it right here in nc!!!!!

http://www.google.com/search?q=schem...ml%3B976%3B526

Hugh

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Old 02-11-2013, 10:00 PM   #14
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here: It is very similar to this . Use RKN where the red led is lean while green is rich.The scale is from 0 to 1.25 volts.

"The intake: You'll get some extra horsie power from installing a B21F intake. I think there is an idle screw on your manifold. That may need to be adjusted but I would track down the vacuum leaks (if there are any) before touching that."

Is that right?????

Hugh

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Old 02-11-2013, 10:15 PM   #15
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Didn't Stu do the B230-kjet intake?
I followed his lead and did it on my '84 242ti, which now belongs to 740ATL.
Wow, how long ago was that? Time back, way back.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:51 PM   #16
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No what he did was use a 23 EFI manifold on 21ft kjet block that already has mechanical injector ports bored into the head. He kept the mechanical injector system and used the intake for more flow. He plugged the EFI bosses and routed the idle speed using parts from the old setup. If I remember he negleted the manifold brace the the idle speed mounts to on a 23.If i remember he scraped quite a bit of casting trash from the inside of that manifold. I doubt you will make more power with the 21ft manifold. Thats why I said "Is that right?". Also why I quickly put my 21ft manifold up for sale. I wont be going back to it!!!!!. I write up of this swap is in the articles section. OLD NEWS!!!!! REAL OLD. http://www.turbobricks.com/mods.php?content=art0026
I went to the EFI setup with EFI injectors and will use those beautiful ports in the head for something lovely.

First time I heard of the 2.1 litre manifold outflowing the 2.3 litre.Im still saying "is that right?"

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Old 02-11-2013, 11:08 PM   #17
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I doubt you will make more power with the 21ft manifold.
Read again. I said B21F not B21FT. Big difference. One flows like ****, one has the largest plenum of all factory intakes and flows well.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:20 PM   #18
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Are you talking about this intake that come standard in like a 77 242 gl? where the TB facing downwards towards the ground? So how much more hp is that good for over the 23?

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Old 02-11-2013, 11:35 PM   #19
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Are you talking about this intake that come standard in like a 77 242 gl? where the TB facing downwards towards the ground? So how much more hp is that good for over the 23?
Yes. A B21F intake. Erik Ebberoth saw a good 20hp increase.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:43 PM   #20
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Really????? Ill have to check into that. Did he pull that info off a dyno?It wont work for me as Im not running MI's. I do own the manifold, it will stay on the 77, then maybe a groupA type build is its future. I doubt it. Thanks for the info thats very interesting.I will add it to my notes.

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Old 02-12-2013, 12:20 PM   #21
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Here is everything that's been done to the car.
http://www.k-jet.org/articles/archiv...rs-volvo-page/

That said, the only stuff I'm going to focus on is fixing things that are suffering from neglect, K-JET (and most likely something called UT-CIS), and getting the car into the 300hp range, which is a good stopping place as that number would remain well within the limits of K-JET and the drive train.

To hit that power number I'll most likely use another RSI cam and one of these...
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=TBN

I thought the car eventually got an IPD turbo cam but I've not been able to determine that as fact. But whatever.... I like the RSI cam. I'm running one in my 744. It was worth every cent!!!

The decision to keep K-JET is based in large part on wanting to keep the car somewhat period. I also believe that in the long run, it will maintain it's worth to those that are appreciative of examples of technology from the various periods.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:43 PM   #22
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if you do not plan to use the injector ports in the b230 intake manifold (And you have someone with a decent welder) you could remedy some of the flow issues with it by welding up the dips for the injectors and then grinding and sanding it back round. That'd be a lot of work but it would keep the 'look' the same. better would be the b21f intake already mentioned. the ports are straighter, and fed from a plenum vs what amounts to a flat merge collector.

I don't have flow numbers for the b21f intake (never had one, no one ever sent me one to test) but I can say that while the port-port flow on the b230f isn't bad, it's the overall that really kills it. After jacking withe manifold and the throttle body I was able to coax ~210cfm out of a single port, but the whole thing would stop not much higher than that (i.e. all 4 ports uncorked, or even just two ports). FWIW, on the throttle body, grinding down and shaping the throttle shaft is worth a good bump in flow for the amount of time required. rounding the edges of the throttle blade didn't hurt either. Obviously punching it out would be good, but the returns on those two things should actually be noticeable with minimal cost and visual intrusion.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:02 PM   #23
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if you do not plan to use the injector ports in the b230 intake manifold (And you have someone with a decent welder) you could remedy some of the flow issues with it by welding up the dips for the injectors and then grinding and sanding it back round. That'd be a lot of work but it would keep the 'look' the same. better would be the b21f intake already mentioned. the ports are straighter, and fed from a plenum vs what amounts to a flat merge collector.

I don't have flow numbers for the b21f intake (never had one, no one ever sent me one to test) but I can say that while the port-port flow on the b230f isn't bad, it's the overall that really kills it. After jacking withe manifold and the throttle body I was able to coax ~210cfm out of a single port, but the whole thing would stop not much higher than that (i.e. all 4 ports uncorked, or even just two ports). FWIW, on the throttle body, grinding down and shaping the throttle shaft is worth a good bump in flow for the amount of time required. rounding the edges of the throttle blade didn't hurt either. Obviously punching it out would be good, but the returns on those two things should actually be noticeable with minimal cost and visual intrusion.
Yeah man, I seem to remember you posting some flow numbers for the B21F manifold. That part is still a consideration. It's just going to have to wait until I'm done swapping in the new lump on the 744.
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:05 PM   #24
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it's always something eh? I don't even have car related excuses anymore, now it's 'you'd better get that upstairs bathroom finished or else!'. I'd settle for just getting the gold bomb put back together sometime this summer, so I can get part of my carport back and maybe clutter it up with the new 740 shell.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:06 PM   #25
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Dicked around after work trying to find the vac leak. Didn't find any under the hood. As a matter of fact, I even introduced leaks. If it is a leak, it's a big one.

So with that in mind, I disconnected the WUR, which had 0 affect on the idle. Of course, that may still not be the issue, but remember you're dealing with a K-Jet idiot.

If there is a water temperature sensor, where is it? Documentation keeps saying it's on the block between 1 and 2, but I don't see it. There is a strange looking thing with two vacuum ports (and lines connected to it of course. One connects to the manifold. I forgot where the other one is going.

There are vacuum lines everywhere! And every third line has a tee off to something else.

And is a one way valve really necessary between the plenum and the CBV? I've not yet run one in that manner so I was surprised to see it.

I think the next thing to try is to first unplug the TPS, then yank and clean the IAC. The IAC is tough in this case because it's under the plenum in front 3 and 4. If it were like 2.2 or 2.4 cars where it's closer to the front, it would be far easier to get at and service. I may be able to put it in that location and re-route the hose to make it work.

One more interesting thing: I disconnected the line to the brake booster AND IT STILL RAN! Come to think of it, the idle speed dropped considerably as well.

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I know I know.

If it's only got LEDs it's most likely a narrowband. I would ditch that post haste and put a proper wideband in.
OK. Your deduction is correct about it being narrowband. They both are. The 1 wire sensor is being used only to drive the AF meter. it's a three wire that's hung off the DP.

I personally don't see the need for two of them, but oh well.

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The reason I asked about the injectors was so that you don't forget to replace those 8 injector seals. A trick learned from RWC: stick them in some gas to make them swell up properly.
Ahhh.... Thanks. That's good to know.

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...now it's 'you'd better get that upstairs bathroom finished or else!'....
That's a boat I'm glad to no longer be in!
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