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Old 12-16-2020, 06:14 PM   #1
daniels740
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Default Lug nuts

Just went to get my tires rotated and had quite the experience. I always knew my lug nuts were not quite right and took some force to get on and off but it turns out they finally need to be replaced.

It angered me that two nuts would not come back on and I had to drive a couple miles with only 4 nuts on two of the wheels but it is what it is. I got two from AutoZone real quick for over $3 a nut and they got on and tightened very nicely. That being said, I know I need to replace all of them so which should I buy to keep my Draco wheels on:

a) https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...71037&jsn=2554 (same part# and brand as AutoZone ones I bought, but they are Dorman brand)

b) https://www.ipdusa.com/products/5510...-70038-1273068

I am thinking it is a bit overkill starting a thread to ask this, but this is my first time needing to get new lug nuts and I want to be sure I won't have any problems with them in the future.

Side note: ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS watch BJ's, Walmart, etc workers when they touch your vehicle. I didn't watch the BJ's tire people this time because they did a good job last time, but boy should I have been paying attention. They decided to jack the car from those side rails rather than the stock jacking points which made the rails flat in the front and bent in the back. I did check in mid-rotation cause I am paranoid and I made sure that they knew what they did. I'd say it was a learning experience for all involved.
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Old 12-16-2020, 06:40 PM   #2
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Also, if someone could tell me to how many ft. lbs I should torque the nuts to that'd be great. I have Draco wheels. Thanks again.
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Old 12-16-2020, 06:55 PM   #3
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The ones from IPD are the correct part numbers for a 740 (1273068).

Spec'd tightening torque is 85nm / 63ft. lbs, but I personally find that a bit low and I usually tighten my Hydras to about 95nm and winter steelies to about 105nm or thereabouts.

Can't hurt to say, make sure you have the tapered side of the nuts against the wheel.
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Old 12-16-2020, 07:05 PM   #4
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It’s marked right on your front bearing grease caps. 65 foot pounds. Do not torque them any higher than that. As far as the Lugnuts, I can put together a nice set of original equipment ones for you. They are used, however, they are made of much higher grade steel than that stuff you are contemplating buying.
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Old 12-16-2020, 10:21 PM   #5
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That lube tech thought your Volvo was a Honda! He just kicked the feet of the lift under the pinch welds and then hit the button.

I'm experienced enough now I can kick the feet under most vehicles and hoist it without having to take a knee four times. I know where the lift points are.

Another classic rookie move is to jack the vehicle by the floor pan.


Get new studs too. Fresh nuts and studs work much better than just new nuts.
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Old 12-16-2020, 11:17 PM   #6
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^^ Is it an easy enough job (replacing studs) to justify doing? The two new nuts that I had to put on today still slid on fairly easily so the old studs seem good enough to me. I don't want to replace them with some aftermarket studs which will create more problems in the long run. That being said, I also don't want to mess up the new nuts.

Oh, the paradox of wanting to be cheap AND lazy.

Also, on the point of inexperienced lube techs, every time I do my oil changes I can't help but notice the fact that someone jacked my Nissan from the oil pan. It's a bit caved in on all 4 corners. Funny how a single, once a year trip to a lube tech is enough for them to leave their mark.
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Old 12-16-2020, 11:22 PM   #7
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Default Moral Of Story

Never let the tire monkeys touch your car, take them loose wheels first thing in the morning and ask if you can wait for them to be done.

NB:

If you try to be a nice guy and come back later they'll still be sitting in the corner as they deal with cars, and you'll have to wait around even longer anyway while they're real busy.
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Old 12-16-2020, 11:32 PM   #8
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^
Warranty is void on my tires if I don't do my rotations with them and have the documentation.

That being said, I'm starting to think a void tire warranty is nothing compared to the destruction they can accomplish.
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Old 12-16-2020, 11:47 PM   #9
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Who rotates tires around the car anymore anyway?

Usually I just slap the fronts on the back when they start to edge and get some more when they're all edged and down.

But you're right the 'pro rated' towards new tires thing is a bunch of and a waste of time, plus they'll just gimp your car again & again.

Ya Tuesday morning first thing is best.

I'd buy Roy's used OE lugs or get some at the JY, and chase anything that doesn't thread nicely with tap & dies, or borrow thread chasers at Kragens if you want to get fancy.

Beating on the hubs to remove them isn't good for the roller bearings either, so unless you have a proper stud press you should try to avoid changing the studs.

~~~~~~~~

All that said, I just bought a pair of 195-65-15 Michelin Defenders @ $230 delivered for the back from Discount Tire Direct on eBay and did the mount and balance myself at a friend's shop.

Done and done right first time every time ...

Last edited by Redwood Chair; 12-17-2020 at 12:04 AM..
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Old 12-17-2020, 02:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniels740 View Post
Just went to get my tires rotated and had quite the experience. I always knew my lug nuts were not quite right and took some force to get on and off but it turns out they finally need to be replaced.
I bet they looked like this:

Classic case of WAY over-tightening, usually by "Bubba" with an impact. The main tapered part gets deformed, so they don't hold the wheel on properly, and the remaining tapered point actually gets squeezed too small. It then grabs the stud so hard it won't let go, and won't go back on.
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Old 12-17-2020, 02:26 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by daniels740 View Post
The two new nuts that I had to put on today still slid on fairly
easily so the old studs seem good enough to me.
I would grab a stud or two from the parts store (should just be a couple dollars) and compare visually. If they look similar you should be OK. My car when purchased had really worn threads. The nuts went on easily but didn't hold well.
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Old 12-17-2020, 10:43 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
I bet they looked like this:

Classic case of WAY over-tightening, usually by "Bubba" with an impact. The main tapered part gets deformed, so they don't hold the wheel on properly, and the remaining tapered point actually gets squeezed too small. It then grabs the stud so hard it won't let go, and won't go back on.
The nuts were actually bad from before I went to them. Ever since I did my brakes just over a year ago I remember they were really hard coming off. I don't even have an impact so I remember how hard they were to unscrew/screw and how they heated up from the friction. ALL the lug nuts were like this. Last time the car had matching new tires put on was by Firestone in 2006. I really believe it was their doing replacing all the lug nuts with the ones that aren't exactly right.

Anyway, the nuts are fairly soft IMO, and therefore did not damage the studs from what I've seen. I have one that didn't go back on so I'll inspect that one later today. Thanks.
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Old 12-21-2020, 04:41 PM   #13
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LOL, on my coupe DD, the fronts and rears are different sizes and directional - so no rotation unless I pop them off the rims and go side to side.

On the wife's car it has matching tires all round. I follow the RWC method of rotation.

I also put the car on stands and take the wheels in when changing them. At some point, I'll repair the old tire machine that I just acquired and then only have to pay for balancing.

I also generally stand outside the open bay door while they are doing my tires. I like to see if they re-run it after mounting weights to verify zero. I have to prompt them about 1/2 the time.

Its worse with my old dodge truck rims. They are locking rings. The guy balancing the tires for me (20 something guy), initially told me that he couldn't balance it because the rim was 'damaged'. He didn't understand that you remove the ring to put the tire (with a tube) on and then put the ring back on. After a five minute conversation, I pulled out my phone and we watched a video of me mounting the tire. The manager walked by about the time we finished watching the video and said "hey, split rings! I haven't seen any of those in 10 years or so." He then told the kid not to worry about it and just balance the tire. He'd also never seen bias ply offroad truck tires before...
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Old 12-21-2020, 05:03 PM   #14
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I rotate the fronts diagonally to the rear, then the rears go straight to the front.
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Old 12-21-2020, 05:09 PM   #15
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I rotate the fronts diagonally to the rear, then the rears go straight to the front.

So many tires have directional tread these days, you can no longer do that.
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Old 12-21-2020, 11:37 PM   #16
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So many tires have directional tread these days, you can no longer do that.
Yes, why is that, other than better water or mud clearing? Is there a danger of tread separation if run backwards? I remember in the '80s some Pirelli Cinturatos suffered catastrophic tread separation if you ran them in the direction reversed from their previous direction (they were not directional). Happened to my parents soon after a tire rotation.
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Old 12-21-2020, 11:52 PM   #17
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The BFG's I run are bidirectional although I am very certain when they rotated them they kept them on the same side.

Also, I remember the owner's manual for my 740 says something about keeping tires on the same side during rotation, although, it might have been about studded tires only. I think it fatigues the tire and how the tread is connected to the rest of the tire.
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Old 12-23-2020, 12:10 PM   #18
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I always have Continental on my 940 and the winter tires are directional while the summers are not.
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Old 12-23-2020, 05:33 PM   #19
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Yes, why is that, other than better water or mud clearing? Is there a danger of tread separation if run backwards? I remember in the '80s some Pirelli Cinturatos suffered catastrophic tread separation if you ran them in the direction reversed from their previous direction (they were not directional). Happened to my parents soon after a tire rotation.
I think you are correct that it has to do with moving water across the tread as efficiently as possible. A lot of the high-performance tires are not only directional, they are side dependent.
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Old 12-25-2020, 10:36 PM   #20
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I remember in the '80s some Pirelli Cinturatos suffered catastrophic tread separation if you ran them in the direction reversed from their previous direction (they were not directional).
Way back in the day the old wives told us that we should never change the direction of a tire after it had been run. Maybe the Pirelli story contributed to that. They also told us to never set a lead-acid battery on concrete, because the charge would be sucked out of it.

I have since heard both of these tales de-bunked, but I have not been able to fully let go of them. Usually it doesn't cost much trouble to adhere to them.
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