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brake upgrade- 142

I haven't worked on 140's, but assuming the brakes are somewhat similar to a 240's, the conversion process could be as easy as a bracket to fit the 850 caliper and the use of 850 rotors. Plus, of course, some kind of Y hose to adapt the tri-y system found on 240's to a single-line like the 850.

As far as I'm aware however, this conversion hasn't been done before. At least not in the states.
 
the 140 factory brakes are a pretty good setup, especially for 30+ year old technology. somebody here was saying that his friend's car with braided lines, super blue fluid, and good pads stopped so hard that the 5-points almost left bruises.

however, there are threads around that deal with using different length studs, 160 brakes, and 240 rotors or something, all this earns you vented brakes with a strong aftermarket for pads and slotted or drilled rotors. if you really got creative with the research being done, you could probably mount RX-7 calipers like some of the 240 guys are doing. aluminum, 4-pot, and an even bigger aftermarket for pads.

the 140 is pretty light already. search for the 140 brake upgrade threads, and the rx-7 caliper thread, and with some creativity i dont see it being THAT hard to do, and jesus, you'll be able to stop.
 
That was me- it did leave bruises. That was 160 vented brakes and Ferrodo DS11's (like, pure frickin' asbestos man:twisted:). Apparently that's why you can't get them any more. At least not the formulation that was so good.

I just got the 160 brakes on my 142 tonight, ironically enough. Took forever to get 164 hubs. You DO need them. The parts can be a major pita to get, but they work very, very well.

My 240 goes to my workshop this weekend, at which point it will not need to drive anymore and will donate its new calipers to the 140. It should be even better then.

Arcane system? Uhh, 140's have more advanced brakes than half of the cars made in the 90's dude.

Anyways to do the swap you need:

164E Vented rotors from Buybrakes.com

164E hubs from anywhere you get lucky enough to find them. Search car-part.com. I got mine from there via Sibum's Auto parts in PA. They had another set listed as well. People have debated as to wether or not these are necessary and I'm here to say they definitately are.

164E ATE vented front calipers OR 240 vented Girling front calipers (must be drilled out to accept 1/2-20" caliper bolts, it's minor).

I have the "proper" ATE front calipers right now, but they're a crappy design. I put them on becuase somehow I had them.
People have theorized that the 240 calipers use different brake fittings and so you need to either cut and re-flare the lines with the correct fittings, or use compression fittings.

I think they bolt-in once you drill 'em out. The hardline fittings sure look the same (and use the same 11mm flare wrench). But they might be almost the same but one is metric and the other is standard. Anyways that's an unknown at this point. I'll know sometime this month when I get around to swapping the 240 stuff on.

Aluminum would be nice, but the 160 stuff works very, very well, and doesn't take much effort one you track down the parts.

Hope this helps. 140's own.
 
Ken, why do you need the hubs? What exactly was the problem without them?

Edit - also why the 164 rotors? Wouldn't 240 vented rotors be the same? I've heard some say that they're so terribly horribly different, but if the 240 Girlings work in place of the 160 ATEs, what's so different? Diameter? Backspacing?

I'd gone the other way in my yellow 242 - used 164 calipers and 240 vented rotors, and I knew they worked that way, but I sadly know nothing about the 140/160s...

We're doing 11.75 x 1.25 Wilwoods in Dale's 122, but keep that under your hat for now.
 
The 164 rotor hat is way thicker than the 140 solid one- the studs aren't even close to long enough. One could put studs in the 140 hubs, but I couldn't find any- well, some dealer in LA apparently has them for 10 bucks a stud or something rediculous. I probably should have taken pics of all of it. But the should on 160 studs that the rotor sits on is about 10mm longer. Some people claim their 140 studs were fine, I would have a look at your wheelnuts and consider if having essentially a 10mm shorter stud would still give you decent thread engagement. It certainly didn't on my car. :)



On Calipers/rotors:
This might be confusing but here goes:
The calipers will interchange because the ear on the knuckle/strut is set up up for the rotor offset of the corresponding rotor. The caliper just bolts up to a flat surface, so unless the caliper design is radically different, the offset will be fine as long as you use the correct rotor.

So you can swap calipers to your heart's content (and it was your experience that also made me think that the brake hardlines are all the same thread) but the rotors themselves have different offsets.
And hell yeah on the willwods. Why do ya think I can pull the new brakes off the 240 to put on the 140? 6 piston beeyatch!:-D
 
Captain Bondo said:
I think they bolt-in once you drill 'em out. The hardline fittings sure look the same (and use the same 11mm flare wrench). But they might be almost the same but one is metric and the other is standard. Anyways that's an unknown at this point. I'll know sometime this month when I get around to swapping the 240 stuff on.

Hope this helps. 140's own.
Click to expand...

i can attest to the early 240 girling calipers bolting right up and working fine after you drill the holes out to 1/2"; i tried it because i was in a pinch and it worked out perfectly. the factory 140 lines bolt right up, and i drove the car probably 1,000 miles afterward with no issues.

and yes, 140's do own.
 
I'm sure somewhere, but on here only 2 or 3 people have put R brakes on their 240s, and I know there are easily dozens of people who've done it who wouldn't be caught dead posting here.
 
Matt Dupuis said:
I'm sure somewhere, but on here only 2 or 3 people have put R brakes on their 240s, and I know there are easily dozens of people who've done it who wouldn't be caught dead posting here.
Click to expand...

too cool for turbobricks but not too cool for volvos?

hah
 
huuuuuuu

ok first off the 160 hubs are not nessasary. only the 160 studs. witch i posted the part # for in the other thread. yes they are expensive at $7-$10 a piece. or u can use the longer 240 studs from kg trimning. the 140 and 160 hubs are the same part number.

second there would be no reason to use 240 rotors as they are 1/2" smaller in diamater the 140 and 160 have larger brakes than the 240 both front and rear. the only down fall is that the 140 had solid rotors. oh and rubbers lines. with good pads , fluid and ss lines the 140 will stop better than a 240 any day.

as fare as calipers go the ate 160 fronts just suck. they have a smaller pad size than the girling ones that were on the 140 and 240. plus there are barely any pads available for them. every set i have seen have also been locked up.

the 240 girling calipers are not a direct bolt on. like was already mentioned that the holes need to be opened up to 1/2". plus the offset is different. the mounting face on the 240 calipers needs to be milled down. like this
http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/bigbrakes

as far as the brake lines go the the threading on all the 140 240 girling calipers is the same. it is a 3/8 x 24 bubble flare witch is somw old antiquatated size that no one but girling usses. the 140 lines will work. if you are going to an lines youy will have to use a 3/8 x 24 adapter witch is designed to use a crush washer.

as fare as the lines go if you want to get rid of the dual redundency system. u can use 240 abs calipers like i am using witch ony have on line. so you can seperate the lines on set for the rear and one for the front like the abs 240, 850 or what ever. and it would be suggested to run a proportioning valve in the rear .

maybe all that chassis flex and windshield movement is making yall dissorented.
 
WTF?
Ok I quit this thread. :rofl:

Tell ya what, you can pay 7-10 bucks a stud when you find them and then fiddle around and press the old ones out and the new ones in, and I'll pay 30 bucks a hub from the wrecker and bolt them on. I posted sources for all of the stuff like, 2 days before you posted dude, and explained that it is the studs that are the issue. Or order studs from Sweden? LOL. Whatever. Mine are on my car and they work great so there's not much else I can say. :)

Welcome to Turbobricks, where we make even the most minute of problems infinitely complicated. :rofl:
 
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:rofl::rofl:Hah. That makes at lot more sense. I was thinking, WTF is Ben going on about?:rofl::rofl:

:rofl:You bunch of dicks! Now I REALLY quit!:rofl:

How much tweaking did the 240 calipers need? It's too bad they need less material and not more since it'd be easy to space them out. Still seems weird in that people claim to have put 164 calipers on 240's and etc.
 
So this morning I was forced to do the 240 caliper retrofit.

I arrived at work, and put the car on the hoist planning to patch up the exhaust.
Well, the left front wheel is SOAKED in brake fluid. :rant:
The brakes didn't feel like I'd left a line or bleeder loose (should have been obvious).

So I start to investigate. Turns out, my just installed, reman ATE caliper has a HUGE CRACK in the casting, so it was literally SPRAYING brake fluid sidewys out of the caliper under hard brake applications.

So now I'm pissed because I don't have another caliper, and my receipts are at home and I'm stranded at work.

So, it was up to the parts room to find a good used 240 caliper.

Fidel's right- the offest is off. It's maybe 3mm I'd guess. Basically it's about the thickness of the little pads on the caliper ear that mate up to the steering knuckle.

I ground them off flush with the bench grinder, being careful to try to keep the mating surface "square". Drilled the holes out to 1/2", and then had to use the die grinder on a few select areas in the slot the rotors spin in, and they fit.

So at least it's mobile. And ya- 164E ATE calipers SUCK! Don't bother.
 
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